Posted on 08/09/2015 11:06:27 AM PDT by Old Yeller
The Bible never speaks of a place where one can go to be purified of his sin. Rather, it always speaks of a Person to whom we can go to be purified: Jesus Christ. God tells us that those who refuse to trust Christ to cleanse them from their sins are condemned: Whoever believes in Him avoids condemnation, but whoever does not believe is already condemned for not believing in the name of God's only Son (John 3:18). There are only two choices: Whoever believes in the Son has life eternal. Whoever disobeys the Son will not see life, but must endure the wrath of God (John 3:36; See also Revelation 20:15; Luke 16:19-31, especially verse 26). Anyone who accepts Christ is completely saved: There is no condemnation now for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1). Saying that there is no condemnation, certainly eliminates the flames of purgatory.
Another passage which clearly excludes the idea of purgatory is, their sins and transgressions I will remember no more (Hebrews 10:17). If, as the Bible says, God no longer remembers the sins of those who are in Christ, He does not punish them for these sins. To do so would be saying that Christ had not made full payment for them and that God the Father still remembered them. (See also Romans 5:8-11; Hebrews 10:14-18; Psalm 103:12).
Anyone who does not believe that Christ has completely saved him, has not completely trusted Christ to save him. That is, he does not believe that Christ's sacrifice has paid for all of his sins, and thinks he must pay for some of them himself. However, we are saved when we stop trusting what we can do, and start trusting Christ to save us.
The idea that Christ's sacrifice is not sufficient to cleanse us from all of our sins would condemn a great sinner such as the thief who was crucified with Jesus to suffer a long time in purgatory if not for all eternity in hell! Instead, there was nothing left over that Christ's death on the Cross did not cover. When the thief placed his trust in Christ, Jesus said to him, I assure you: this day you will be with me in paradise (Luke 23:43).
If purgatory existed, and the mass helped people to get out, the rich would have a tremendous advantage by being able to pay for masses to shorten their suffering. The poor instead, would be left to the mercy of the occasional priest who might say an unpaid mass for them. One ex-priest wrote, "If we really believed that the mass would save people from the flames of purgatory, would we make them pay for it? I would even save a dog if I saw one in a fire, and I would never even think of asking to be paid!"
Purgatory was evidently a pagan idea. Virgil, the pagan Latin poet who lived 70 - 19 B.C. divided the departed souls into three different places in his writings: One for the good, one for the damned, and a third where the less bad could pay for their sins. Since the idea of purgatory existed outside of the church before it came into the church, it is probable that it was brought in by contact with pagans like Virgil. There was a great influx of non-Biblical ideas into the church around 300 A.D. when the Roman Emperor Constantine took many unsaved people in as members of the church.
In any event, there is no mention of purgatory in the Bible. Some would try, however, to make the idea sound somewhat Biblical by referring to 2 Maccabees 12:41-45, a passage in one of the apocryphal books written between the times of the Old and New Testaments. These books were never accepted as part of the Hebrew Old Testament, nor quoted in the New Testament, but they are included in the Catholic Bible, though usually with an explanation that they are of a less inspired category. Apart from this passage in 2 Maccabees, the apocrypha is little used by the Catholic church to support a doctrinal position.
It is important to notice that this passage does not speak of purgatory at all, but actually condemns idolatry, particularly the practice of wearing little images on a necklace or such. Hebrew soldiers were found wearing this sort of thing after a battle, and their buddies, on making this discovery, realized that they had died in the sin of idolatry. They then counseled prayer for their souls. The Roman Catholic position is that prayer for them would have been unnecessary if they were in heaven and useless if they were in hell, so there must be another place. The logic seems good, but the result contradicts the clear teaching of the inspired Scripture. Contradicting inspired Scripture with a philosophical response based on an apparent inference from the Apocrypha is a very weak argument indeed. The very word "Apocrypha," which comes from the Greek word for hidden, has come to mean "false," or "of doubtful authorship."
(And quite well; too!!)
Hopefully a typo!
Why.... thank you.....
Abraham had a child through Hagar when married to Sarah.
Was this approved by God?
Who laughed?
Yeah ignoring the Bible qualifies as a dodge.
There is no mention of a Dodge in the Bible.
There are mentions of a Plymouth and a Honda though.
Here's a Biblical question for you:
Who were the shortest people mentioned in the Bible?
Well some are considered secong class Christians (huh?) referred to condescendingly as "separated brethren."
Jesus disagrees.
Pride has interesting results in a person's life.
More tabloid trash linked above.
Priests are bucking Catholic Church leadership to support same-sex marriage in IrelandValid or invalid?
I would hope so, Elsie. But I wanted it clarified for two reasons:
1) For the poster personally, if it’s actually what he believes, because it goes against the Word and would be a dreadful burden to carry; and
2) For any believer not well-versed in the Holy Bible (admitting, by the way, that I have barely begun to scratch the surface and don’t believe that several lifetimes would suffice to plumb all the riches contained therein), but particularly and especially for new believers just starting their journey with Christ and through His Word.
I didn’t want to leave it just hanging out there without refutation in fear that some might walk away with a false belief causing great harm, heartache and discouragement. Seems to be enough of that already.
Blessings, Elsie.
Don't forget the also totally un-Biblical rule that all Christians--in fact ALL people--MUST be in submission to the leader of Catholicism, your Pope.
Christians are in submission to out Saviour, Jesus Christ.
By the way posting that someone is a Catholic when they are not is considering mindreading.
That is, according to the RM, mindreading which is making it personal.
Only God can know a person's heart, not random members here at FR.
.....as are ALL Christians
I suggest you do a study in the NT on how one becomes a Christian.
It may surprise you.
Hint: it isn't a brand (mark) seared into a person at infant or adult "baptism." Quote marks around baptism as infant "baptism" isn't Biblical baptism.
It might be more interesting if you were to say what you think he is saying.
How do you interpret it?
I didn’t understand it all, GBA. Hence, the request for elaboration.
What say you to comment?
I read (KJB) 1 Corinthians 15:18-19: “Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.”
Before that, however, verses 13-17: “But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen. And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching in vain, and your faith is also in vain. Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.”
Inadvertently left off verse 19. My apologies.
15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
But most importantly:
15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
I say: Thanks for clarifying that for me!
It was my pleasure, GBA. Quoting His word, sharing His promises to those who put their faith in Him, and perhaps blessing a passerby in the process with the assurance He gives to those in Him is always a blessing!
So, thank you!
I asked first. Nice try at dodging.
Do you EVER follow your own suggestions?
As often as you say something intelligent.
Place Mark
You never responded to post 606.
Keep asking if you want.
Although your answer:
I asked first. Nice try at dodging.
Was to my question:
You asked that first?
Priests are bucking Catholic Church leadership to support same-sex marriage in IrelandValid or invalid?
Well, that's good!
Again, your posts contain a preponderance of strawman questions and statements.
I don't bite on bait.
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