Posted on 08/09/2015 11:06:27 AM PDT by Old Yeller
The Bible never speaks of a place where one can go to be purified of his sin. Rather, it always speaks of a Person to whom we can go to be purified: Jesus Christ. God tells us that those who refuse to trust Christ to cleanse them from their sins are condemned: Whoever believes in Him avoids condemnation, but whoever does not believe is already condemned for not believing in the name of God's only Son (John 3:18). There are only two choices: Whoever believes in the Son has life eternal. Whoever disobeys the Son will not see life, but must endure the wrath of God (John 3:36; See also Revelation 20:15; Luke 16:19-31, especially verse 26). Anyone who accepts Christ is completely saved: There is no condemnation now for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1). Saying that there is no condemnation, certainly eliminates the flames of purgatory.
Another passage which clearly excludes the idea of purgatory is, their sins and transgressions I will remember no more (Hebrews 10:17). If, as the Bible says, God no longer remembers the sins of those who are in Christ, He does not punish them for these sins. To do so would be saying that Christ had not made full payment for them and that God the Father still remembered them. (See also Romans 5:8-11; Hebrews 10:14-18; Psalm 103:12).
Anyone who does not believe that Christ has completely saved him, has not completely trusted Christ to save him. That is, he does not believe that Christ's sacrifice has paid for all of his sins, and thinks he must pay for some of them himself. However, we are saved when we stop trusting what we can do, and start trusting Christ to save us.
The idea that Christ's sacrifice is not sufficient to cleanse us from all of our sins would condemn a great sinner such as the thief who was crucified with Jesus to suffer a long time in purgatory if not for all eternity in hell! Instead, there was nothing left over that Christ's death on the Cross did not cover. When the thief placed his trust in Christ, Jesus said to him, I assure you: this day you will be with me in paradise (Luke 23:43).
If purgatory existed, and the mass helped people to get out, the rich would have a tremendous advantage by being able to pay for masses to shorten their suffering. The poor instead, would be left to the mercy of the occasional priest who might say an unpaid mass for them. One ex-priest wrote, "If we really believed that the mass would save people from the flames of purgatory, would we make them pay for it? I would even save a dog if I saw one in a fire, and I would never even think of asking to be paid!"
Purgatory was evidently a pagan idea. Virgil, the pagan Latin poet who lived 70 - 19 B.C. divided the departed souls into three different places in his writings: One for the good, one for the damned, and a third where the less bad could pay for their sins. Since the idea of purgatory existed outside of the church before it came into the church, it is probable that it was brought in by contact with pagans like Virgil. There was a great influx of non-Biblical ideas into the church around 300 A.D. when the Roman Emperor Constantine took many unsaved people in as members of the church.
In any event, there is no mention of purgatory in the Bible. Some would try, however, to make the idea sound somewhat Biblical by referring to 2 Maccabees 12:41-45, a passage in one of the apocryphal books written between the times of the Old and New Testaments. These books were never accepted as part of the Hebrew Old Testament, nor quoted in the New Testament, but they are included in the Catholic Bible, though usually with an explanation that they are of a less inspired category. Apart from this passage in 2 Maccabees, the apocrypha is little used by the Catholic church to support a doctrinal position.
It is important to notice that this passage does not speak of purgatory at all, but actually condemns idolatry, particularly the practice of wearing little images on a necklace or such. Hebrew soldiers were found wearing this sort of thing after a battle, and their buddies, on making this discovery, realized that they had died in the sin of idolatry. They then counseled prayer for their souls. The Roman Catholic position is that prayer for them would have been unnecessary if they were in heaven and useless if they were in hell, so there must be another place. The logic seems good, but the result contradicts the clear teaching of the inspired Scripture. Contradicting inspired Scripture with a philosophical response based on an apparent inference from the Apocrypha is a very weak argument indeed. The very word "Apocrypha," which comes from the Greek word for hidden, has come to mean "false," or "of doubtful authorship."
That’s a lot of personal information.
You should have that post removed.
I will pray for you.
Your question and the two choices you offer reveal your ignorance.
I'm sorry but you have such a limited view of the picture. Please go back and read or re-read the posts that talk about the power of the resurrection and ascension of Jesus Christ. You need a better understanding of Christ's power over sin, hell, death and the grave and how we have access to that power in our transformed and sanctified lives.
Also, it is the power of the Holy Spirit that convicts us of our sin and our need for a Savior. Further, it is the Word of God (special revelation) that informs us of God's Plan of Salvation.
Finally, (speaking of symbols) my son came to Christ after understanding Jn 3:14 -- a bronze serpent set on a pole - He fully understood the representation of the type of Christ, and he gave his life to Christ as a result. He was 4 years old. He was baptized as a believer and he leads a wholesome life that is fully dependent of God.
I think I'm done with you on this round. Maybe we'll talk again sometime, but no more on this thread.
Yeah, we all know that everyone is 100% honest when talking with the priest.....that fling in Vegas, well, let's just not mention that and the fact that I am sterile, perhaps we'll just let that go unannounced.......too bad if she wants kids...
Amen. I often think of the Lord healing the man born blind. That beautiful event set off a confrontation between a happy soul set free by God and a bunch of snakes! “You brood of vipers!” Boy were John the Baptist and Jesus right about them.
To think that a “nobody” could innocently and yet boldly go up against a religious power structure like that and SHAME THEM, wow! Metmom, if the Son of Man sets you free you shall be free INDEED! Praise Him!
All which should have been addressed in the pre-cana classes if the priest was doing his job properly.
There should be no excuse for a priest even marrying people in which those situations have not been thoroughly addressed.
Again, it's just excuses.
Annulment breaks the one flesh relationship between a married man and woman by using conditions that are NEVER found in Scripture.
In short, it's just a man-made contrivance to allow for a person to get out of a marriage without calling it a divorce. The end result is the same however, thus making annulment church sanctioned divorce.
Beware of fallen angels. They lie with a brilliance you cannot match.
You are a Catholic...thus bound by Catholic teachings.....as are ALL Christians, in reality.
And that happens all the time, right?
It sounds an awful lot like the arguments for supporting abortion.
What if........(posit some rare to never occurring scenario to justify disobeying God.)?
Sure and men know they're sterile before they are married just how often?
And adoption is not an option?
Where in Scripture does God state that not wanting children is a reason for breaking the marriage vow?
In your dreams.....
Hmmm. Does that mean then, that I can now post on Catholic caucus threads after all?
What personal information????....it was a legitimate question, would that be a valid marriage?????
Nope. Only Catholics are bound by Catholic teachings.
I belong to Jesus, not the Catholic church, and it has NO say over me, my life, what I do, whatever, and much as it's controlling little heart wants, it can't control me because whom the SON sets free is free indeed.
And I am free in Jesus.
Being naive is so much easier than accepting reality.....
I’m so sorry to hear that you are in that position, but maybe some day you will understand that what God has put together, man should not break apart.
A marriage that is not open to procreation is not a valid marriage.
Oh, thought it was something involving you.
I can't imagine anyone making up something that depraved and sick involving generational rape and incest just to disprove the Bible.
it was a legitimate question
Maybe for a leftist hate site or a porn site, but not here at Free Republic in the Religion Forum.
Just as legitimate as asking if a lesbian monkey could marry a cat, if they were both blessed during the Blessing of pets and animals last Oct.
Would that be a legitimate marriage??????
Good grief, a "protestant" explaining the sanctity of marriage....I know that a valid marriage lasts forever and cannot be dissolved, I also know that a legal divorce does not dissolve a sanctified marriage, I also know that divorce and remarriage means that you are living in a state of adultery. I also know that there are valid reasons why a valid marriage did not take place.....shotgun weddings for example.
Thank you, that answers the question of whether Joseph and Mary had an "open to procreation" marriage, and the answer, as the Bible confirms, is yes.
Joseph was told to wait for Jesus to be born before having sexual relations with his wife.
Unless of course you don't see Joseph and Mary's marriage as being valid.
You obviously misunderstood my question.
The wife discovers that her husband is her brother....the baby brother that her mother gave birth to when her mother was 15, six years before the new wife was born....there is nothing depraved here....it happens all the time that kids discover that they have a long lost brother/sister that was born when their moms were teenagers.....
I have no idea as to what constitutes a valid Jewish marriage.
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