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To: MHGinTN

“By the time the winepress ‘occurs’ the only thing left are the unbelievers, those who have refused to believe Jesus is the ONLY means of deliverance and eternal life as God offers to bring life tot he dead souls of men.”

Yes, only unbelievers are left because the first resurrection occurs at Christ’s return, and all believers, living and dead are resurrected as part of that event. After that, Christ dispenses God’s wrath on the world.

“When the barley harvest, er, I mean the Rapture happens, the dead in Christ who died during the Church Age together with those alive in Christ at the moment of the harvest, er, I mean Rapture of the Church, will be —as Paul put it, telling the Corinthians that he was showing them a mystery, something hidden and just being revealed— transformed, I a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, then together (as Paul wrote in 2 Thess 2) as a gathering together unto Him, The Christ, we shall be departed to where Jesus told His disciples He was going to prepare for them and come to take them THERE, not uppn the EArth, THERE, in Heaven.”

So then why is there a first resurrection, of all the believers living and dead, at the end of the tribulation? According to you, all have already been resurrected in the rapture, rendering the first resurrection not only falsely labelled (since it wouldn’t actually be the first) but also superfluous. God doesn’t do things that are false or superfluous, so your interpretation has some pretty huge contradictions to try to explain away.

“God will remove His chosen before He sends His wrath”

Of course, that is why we are resurrected at Christ’s return at the end of the tribulation, before God’s wrath comes upon the world.

“The hellish state will already be started, so those in Christ will already be gone with The Christ back to where He has been preparing a place for the born from above.”

This is just an assumption on your part, and I think a very poor one. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that Christians will be removed before the Tribulation.

“If America is to have revival, I see the Truth of the imminency of the Rapture as an anchor to which revival can be secured.”

I don’t think revival based on a misinterpretation of Scripture is likely or desirable. Besides, we know there will be great apostasy before the end, so we should expect the number of Christians to dwindle and not increase at that time.


617 posted on 07/29/2015 11:05:21 AM PDT by Boogieman
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To: Boogieman
According to you, all have already been resurrected in the rapture, rendering the first resurrection not only falsely labelled (since it wouldn’t actually be the first) but also superfluous. God doesn’t do things that are false or superfluous, so your interpretation has some pretty huge contradictions to try to explain away. Um, try not to put your words in my mouth. I have not said what you assert. ONLY those believers during the Church Age are given new bodies at the Rapture event. Those 'faithers' who had died before Jesus was crucified were resurrected when He came out of the tomb, and they ascended as if a cloud with Him, as seen by the witnesses as Him taken up into a cloud. A similar event will have believers/faithers during the Church Age taken up into 'a cloud' of believers to meet The Lord int he Air, not on the earth.

There will be folks who come to believe in Jesus during the frist half of the Tribulation. They will not be indwelt in the way believers during the Church Age have been. They are resurrected at the end of the Tribulation. The verses for the Tribulation are often conflated with the Church Age. That's understandable because so many conflate the Luke 21 Doscourse witht eh Matthew 24 and Mark 13 Olivet Discourse.

There is nothing superfluous about what God does. But I see you want to hang that label upon what I've offered in good faith. So, that appears to be as far as it is possible to go with you for comity. But the exchanges so far may have helped readers sort out the persepctives on the Rapture of The Chruch, not the Tribulation believers, the Church, The Body of Christ, which will not be going through seven years of tribulation designed for the Jews to put an end to sin 'in Israel'. Have nice day and enjoy life while it is possible to do so upon the earth. when the Tribulation of seven years begins, the Restrainer will no longer be upon the earth in Believers restraining lawlessness. And this will be the first of the wrath of God which grows stronger by degrees, as illustrated in the Book of Revelation after the Church is gone.

618 posted on 07/29/2015 11:25:25 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Is it really all relative, Mister Einstein?)
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