Posted on 07/26/2015 8:55:19 AM PDT by MHGinTN
Here is yet more information, for those who miss the Rapture and are here after the event. This is for people, not any particular congregation of people. Please, think about it ...
I think I know where you are going with this, I’ve heard that line of argument, was it Chuck Missler? anyway, honestly, I’ve never paid much attention to it. Would you mind describing it?
“At the Rapture Jesus does not come to the earth...Therefore there is no third coming...”
Wait, you just said there is a third coming, you agreed to this:
” ‘And if you will concede that “parousia” (coming) is scripturally the word we should use, the word Paul used in Thessalonians, then, doesn’t this mean you have two parousias? Two comings? A parousia before the tribulation, another one after it?’
Yes...One where Jesus ‘meets’ us in the air and we are caught up and the other where Jesus lands on earth... “
If you agree that the same word “coming” is describing both the return of Christ to earth and this “rapture”, and they are separate events, then how are there not three comings?
How can you say that the Bible calls the “rapture” a “coming” and then say it isn’t really a “coming”?
When in 1 Cor 15 Paul says ‘I show you a mystery’, the Second Coming would not be the subject since there are numerous passages in the OT/Septuagint which refer to the Second Coming and aspects of that with signs giving timing, etc. But of course you knew that ... don’t get too much mud on you this evening. God bless you ... Berean minds are in short supply in this epoch.
But that's not what the scripture says, is it??? It says at the last trump...God may be blowing that trumpet for 3 weeks straight...He may be getting people's attention...But at that last trump, things happen...
If the Rapture happens at the end of the Tribulation as you say, the Tribulation saints meet Jesus in the air, and they then return to earth, then what happens???
In one of the Feasts of Israel/Feasts of The Lord, the trumpet is blown 100 times and the last blowing is for as long as the blower can handle a breath.
“Jesus is speaking of the resurrection of all who died, righteous and unrighteous. It is inclusive.”
Jesus clearly refers to them in two separate terms, “the resurrection of the righteous” and the “resurrection of the wicked”. Those aren’t inclusive terms. Revelation describes two resurrections as well, in similar terms, one resurrection where believers are glorified, and another resurrection where people face judgement and death. They are both in agreement that there are two resurrections, and in agreement as to the nature of the resurrections, so why disagree with them?
Also, if you Jesus is only referring to the second resurrection here, take note that he says:
“those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life”
Does this mean you believe that some people in the second resurrection will be judged righteous based on their “good deeds”, their works, and will be given life?
“In Revelation, the first resurrection at His return includes only those who have died in faith, having been sealed by God.”
This includes ALL who are saved. There is no special resurrection for some special subset of the church spoken of in the Bible. Instead we have clear verses that tell us all who are “in Christ” will rise together.
Also, if you believe that the faithful will be part of the second resurrection, then do you also believe the faithful will be judged on their works? Or that they will be subject to the Second Death? (Rev. 20:6, Rev. 20:12-14)
Okay, but we have two parallel set of verses, both speaking of resurrections of believers, during the end of the world, at the return of Christ, both involving a set of trumpets, with the resurrection event happening at the time of the final trumpet.
I guess I’m just not seeing any good reason to believe they don’t refer to exactly the same event. It’s an unnecessary complication, because once you say the verses aren’t connected, then there must be two comings of Christ, two resurrections of believers, two sets of trumpets, etc, of which we don’t really find any evidence. Once an interpretation starts leading you through hoops like that, it’s usually a sign that you missed a much simpler interpretation that is more consistent.
Tell us what you believe ‘in Christ’ means. Upon that designation hangs the timing for their resurrection.
If the Rapture happens at the end of the Tribulation as you say, the Tribulation saints meet Jesus in the air, and they then return to earth, then what happens???
>>Since I’m not Amill. I believe, per Rev. 20, they rule and reign with Christ on this earth for a thousand years.
As to those who survive the events at the end, who are not the elect (the elect are gathered at the 2nd coming, Matt. 24:29-31), and are not therefore in the first resurrection, who have not taken the mark of the beast, have to be the ones 20:8 refers to, “the nations which are in the four corners of the earth,” 20:8.
But how is this supposed to be an argument for a pretribulation rapture? I don’t get it.
I read that...
There are various elect, angels, the OT righteous, NT pre-Pentecost believers, the church, tribulation saints, and those who become believers and live through and after the tribulation.
These last are the ones who have offspring who are not believers (not elect), and their offspring, ect. for the thousand years that come to comprise Satan’s army for the Rev. 20:8 revolt.
Then the GWT judgment.
to clarify, not all the offspring are unbelievers (not elect)
Exactly. Or how about Peter took the rebuke like the man of God he was and said "Brother, you are right. Thank you."? I refuse to believe he was like so many knuckleheaded pastors today who refuse any and every rebuke "like an old King who can no longer take warning".
Those who dabble in the "Paul was a false apostle" theme are on shaky ground, IMO.
Those who dabble in the “Paul was a false apostle” theme are on shaky ground, IMO.
And that's an order! hehheh...
You'd have about a 50% chance of being right no matter one of these you chose.
You are 100% correct.
Religion is NOT for the timid.
Yeah; the meek might inherit the earth; but I’ve read that’s gonna get burned up.
But pray to His mom to be REALLY sure.
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