Posted on 07/22/2015 6:13:14 AM PDT by knarf
How do you personally know that Antartica exists? Through reason (unless you’ve been there).
I know Antartica exists. I know that is a fact, even though I’ve never “experienced Antartica” for myself.
Think about that for a minute: I know that something is a fact, even though I’ve never directly experienced this fact for myself, as much as I know that the color of the sky is blue. It’s a fact Antartica exists. Only a crazy person would deny that.
That can be said with as much certainty as anything. Not because we have all been to Antartica to see it for ourselves. But because we can use a reasonable method to know its true, with 100% certainty.
Same with God. It’s the only reasonable answer to the question: how did everything come into existence when there was nothing to start with? Because you can’t have something starting everything, unless that initial creative “thing” is outside of the time and space created. And any answer that posits some force outside of time and space that is not God, still only pushes the question further out but never resolves the central issue: where did all this stuff come from?
It (belief in God) starts from there and never ceases to be just as reasonable thereafter. Only the current, post-modernist “culture” says differently. Only “they” demand that only something you can experience with your 5 senses is “real”, but yet they still believe Antartica exists, despite their own demand to the contrary.
Don’t be a slave to the world’s mentality. Be your own person, a person who didn’t exist before he was created.
A bit wordy, but I get your point.
There is also evidence that this planet has been visited by aliens over the last few thousand years. To be clear, I am not saying I necessarily believe that it occurred, but the evidence is there and in some cases is pretty compelling.
The point is that there are more stories about how we all got here than the biblical account. And if the story of how we came to be is open for discussion, so is everything else that follows.
Do you jump to the assumption that these aliens who have visited are from another star system? You have no knowledge of the dimensional Universe whch is beyond your five senses. These ‘aliens’ in fact might just be Angels from our own neck of the woods, but their existence is dimensionally beyond your senses. The Bible actually addresses the notions involved in that explanation, if you’re interested. For decades I’ve shared the nuances and am willing to do so now, if you’re interested. But be careful, because when you see the astonishing hints God has given in the Bible, you will be at a crossroads of digging for more, or rejecting Him and His truth for you.
I don’t claim to have all the answers. I am also skeptical of anyone who says they do. Belief on a personal level is one thing. Translation of that to the entire universe is tenuous, given how little we understand it.
I have read the bible through many times. I am familiar with its message(s). I am also open-minded about what science is revealing about the nature of the universe. I don’t see the necessity for conflict, but apparently it must exist for some reason.
In your own words, explain the scene from Daniel Chapter Five ... it can be explained lots of ways, but the Bible gives the way to explain it correctly for what happened. That is one of the astonishing things about the Bible, it was authored by God so He can open it up to a seeker for Him (He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him) and open up nuances you would never make on your own. The third chapter of John’s Gospel, where Jesus speaks with Nicodemus is a prime example. In the entire Old Testament there is not one explanation for why Moses making a brass snake and putting it up on a pole and whoever even looked at it would be cured of snake bites. Jesus gives the explanation in John Three, speaking to just Nicodemus.
You want me to expound on scripture for you? No thanks.
My opinion? It didn’t really happen that way unless you believe in ghosts writing on walls.
The problem with “aliens” as the source of ....whatever I don’t even know what question such a hypothesis is supposed to answer ...but the underlying problem with such ideas as they allegedly compete with the belief in God is that they don’t address the fundamental question implied at the end of my “wordy” reply: why do you, jimbo807 exist and what is the purpose of your life? It’s something you can only answer for yourself, true, but the answer must start reasonably, or else you will end up believing a fantasy. You may even end up professing faith in Jesus, but it will still be a fantasy, a fantiful “Jesus”, if you don’t discover and realize He is just as real as you and I.
This is why I have zero problem with the question of this thread: DO you have a personal relationship with Jesus? This is required for salvation (hence I actually cringe when some of my fellow Catholics deride it). It is required to have, literally and really, a personal one-on-one relationship with Jesus, above all else. It is required, to actually discover yourself, and become truly human (which is what salvation is really).
May you never be satisfied with anything less than Jesus, the only one who can and does satisfy the infinite desires of your own human heart.
God Bless,
In Lisa Randall's recent book (Warped Passages) she describes the formation of certain types of crystals which indicate that there is an interaction between this 4D realm of our senses and higher dimensional reality, such that the crystals array as if from another dimension rather than built up from the bottom.
Please forgive me for not being clear, I did not ask for you to expound on scriptures for me, I was offering 'food for thought'. The passage in Daniel 5 is but one of many passages which have implicit hints as to the structure of the Universe.
It does go straight to the origin question for me and you are insightful in asking that. I take the approach that *if* the story of how we all got here is not the way the bible says then what follows is most likely suspect. Ergo, origin questions are of supreme importance to me.
My counter question for you is, what would you do if it were scientifically proven that we got to this planet in some other way than being formed out of mud by a triune god?
You do realize that ‘scientific proof’ has changed over the centuries, right? What may be a proof today will change radically when the better understanding of the zero point field is integrated into our calculations/reasoning.
I agree that there is much we do not know about most everything.
And that was completely evasive.
No, actually I’m seeking to prepare the soil for good seed. There is mathematical proof now that inertia and gravity arise from the zero point field interacting with ‘things’. If an explanation does not take this newer understanding into account, then the explanation will be nice and tidy, perhaps, and even satisfying to the ignorant mind, ignorant of the zero point interaction, but it will not be definitive. Einstein’s relativity (Special) took Newtonian mechanics to a whole nother level.
That was above my paygrade, but I think I get what you are driving at.
In John 14 Jesus gave Philip a Physics lesson. Of course Phil didn’t understand it as a Physics lesson, but without Jesus’s greater understanding of the way He made the Universe to work, He could not have given such a simple explanation wholly true to the nature of the Universe. The deeper meaning only arises after a centuries of scientific advancement!
Interesting take on things.
I’m going to work on a gun I’m repairing. More later, if you’re interested. Have a good one, wherever you are.
My counter question for you is, what would you do if it were scientifically proven that we got to this planet in some other way than being formed out of mud by a triune god?
First off, I do not believe it's reasonable to attempt answers to the fundamental question all human beings face (why are you here what is your purpose) with "what/if scenarios". It complicates things needlessly in my estimation and ultimately is not reasonable by the true definition of "reasonable". Reason seeks to know something by the totality of its factors, its known factors. Not hypothetical factors. But in this case I will proceed further into your question because it ultimately doesn't pose a problem that requires a solution.
Lets say it's possible that some "alien" from Orion or wherever made humanity (cue Ancient Aliens guy! I love his hair by the way always cracks me up). Does this "fact" change or answer in any way our question?
Why am I here, Mr Gray Alien? Why did you make me? We can posit some "answers" to that question, inserting our own replies into the tiny slit-like mouth of that Gray Alien. But there's the problem right?
We are believing in our own ideas (our answer provided to the alien in response to us). In other words, we are believing a fantasy. By definition! That's what a fantasy is: an idea chiefly if not principally in our own head, from our own imagination.
You see? In order to believe aliens from outer space made us, and that the reason we exist is only known to them, we have to set our own question aside. Our question about why we exist and what purpose do we serve. We have to set that aside, and say it's "unanswerable" until or unless they "return" (whenever that's supposed to be) to believe in the alien "creation theory." Even if it's "scientifically proven" that aliens created us, it still doesn't answer the fundamental question.
My ultimate point to you is this: you can not let your heart be so fooled, so placated, so enslaved. THAT is what the world wants. It wants you to forget about the question, put it aside, ignore it. "It can't ever be answered".
The question you need to ask yourself in response to this worldly demand is: CAN I live with myself putting that question away? Ignoring it, suffocating it, with projects to do or politics to control, or money to make or drugs to take or sex to have? Does it ever go away? Well, does it?
This is why it is said in Scripture, ALL of creation testifies to God. Testifies He is real. Because nothing in this universe can answer the question. Nothing. Not if we are true to ourself. Not if we let ourselves be fully human, even if only for an instant!
This is the almost cruel irony present: the proof of God's existence is in you, YOUR existence, the existence of the fundamental question. A man who thirsts, testifies to the existence of water. A man who hungers, is a witness that food exists. The very existence of the question in your heart, is the only proof that's needed. For the faithful, no proof is needed, for the unbeliever none is ever enough. For those faithful to their own heart, He is there knocking waiting for you. For those who's heart is stony, who represses the question in the various and sundry ways described above, no evidence will ever be sufficient.
Do not let the world suffocate you! Never be satisfied with anything less than a complete answer to the question everyone has! The greatest thing to realize here is that you don't need to take my word for any of this. The proof you seek is in yourself, your own experience. If you are truly honest with yourself, and realize that your desire for everything is real and shared by all, and that this desire testifies to Another, because you don't make yourself, this is when you will discover God.
This is another lie from the world, that you make yourself, that you are your "own boss". Only in realizing your total dependence on Another will you ever discover your own real humanity, and thus be truly free. "Those who lose their life for my sake will gain life everlasting." The choice is yours: enslavement to the world (and its Prince) which demands you "make yourself", or freedom to be yourself, a created and beloved son, the way Another created you. The choice is yours. I only ask that you follow reality.
Dang!
I figgered folks could TELL that the BOLDED stuff was added!
I guess I’ll hafta put a /SARC tag on ALL my stuff!
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