This thread has been locked, it will not receive new replies. |
Locked on 07/23/2015 5:47:09 PM PDT by Jim Robinson, reason:
some people refuse to get it |
Posted on 07/21/2015 4:48:44 PM PDT by Salvation
1John 2:
[3] And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
[4] He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
[5] But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
[6] He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
Few that profess to believe even come close to that standard.
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>> “Yes, believing is all that is required to be credited with righteousness...” <<
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As long as that belief meets the standard of belief that Yeshua and his disciples held.
(Which is found clearly described by Yeshua’s beloved disciple in his first epistle)
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But the catholic church is “do it yourself righteousness” too!
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>> “I’m absolutely certain that you are about to provide us with an extremely accurate description of what He actually meant.” <<
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If you really need it, here it is:
Remove all of the things that imperil your salvation from your life.
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In one sense all sin is sin as even one sin renders one to be law breaker only fit for Hell-fire. Thus as regards the effect of sin in receiving damnation then all sin is the same. All sin is a crime serious enough to damn one to Hell.
But in the sense of the degree of the crime and punishment there is both a difference relative to the sin and the degree of guilt and the sentence.
And let me say that making a difference in the degree of wickedness and their punishment does not sanction what Caths unScripturally do with such, and who usually cannot Scripturally make much of a case for a difference in the degree of sins.
The scribes and Pharisees were warned that they would receive the greater damnation, (Matthew 23:14) and the cities which were shown more light and grace, which should have been a blessing by positively responding to it, left them more damnable than Sodom due to their impenitence. (Lk. 10:8-13)
And thus, while all sinners are in Hell now, they await their sentencing in great white throne judgment for punishment in the Lake of fire, "according to their works, " (Rv. 20:11-15) not just one sin but many, and accordant with their degree of accountability. Thus in degree of punishment all sin is not the same.
We can also see a difference in sins according to the degree of wickedness.
God never said the the sin of Moses in being provoked by the whining faithless Israelites was as the sin of Judas, but due to the level of accountability relative to the great light and grace Moses realized then he was excluded from entering the Promised land though less holy Israelites would. Yet later Moses is one of the two who met with the Lord in the land of Israel, if in a type of vision.
There are sins of ignorance, then there are presumptuous sins which can lead to "the great transgression," (Psalms 19:13) which i think refers to apostasy. Which can correspond to the sin of death.
The Scriptures make a difference btwn capital sins and those of others as seen by their penalty. The sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was "very grievous," (Genesis 18:20), (Gn. 18) including not just heterosexual fornication but they, "going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire." (Jude 1:7)
Which was product of idolatry, not simply a short temper, and the former can be considered the mother of many sins, as out of it flows most others, as Rm. 1 and its progression shows. Souls knew God in a basic sense, but "become vain in their imaginations and their foolish heart was darkened," and thus man made God into an image appealing to their carnal hearts. > "Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves..." (Romans 1:24)
Which led to more sins:
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, (Romans 1:28-29)
Thus idolatry can be seen as a more grievous sin than lying out of weakness as Abraham did, yet since even keeping the whole law, and yet offending in one point renders one a transgressor of the law just as if he had committed all of them . (James 2:10) as regards being a guilty sinner in need of salvation, thus all must cast all their faith upon the risen Lord Jesus, sent by the Father, to save them on His merit.
The one who went last year, I could smell him before he got out of the leader’s car. This year’s boy wasn’t as stinky: he claims he took a shower once, and brushed his teeth!
“..that is where my interest lies...”
Mine too! Let me know if you find a forum that is like that - or maybe it is a forum that will have to wait for the New Jerusalem.
“In the midst of all this conversation about free will, mercy, grace, and love, the saints cannot avoid abuse?”
Some things just have to be overlooked. “The learning of a man is known by patience and his glory is to pass over wrongs.”—Proverbs 19:11
Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
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To simplify your quest:
1. Can God lead his sheep to his truth?
2. Will he?
All the rest is endless side loops.
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We are no longer under the law, which has been explained many times on the threads previously.....The commandments were given to us to reveal we are sinners...without the law how would we know if we were sinning.
If Jesus Christ is living and dwelling in our hearts, we cannot help but have good works in our lives for it is He living His life through us..... doing good for others, helping those less fortunate than ourselves. Letting our light shine before men, so they will glorify our Father which is in heaven.
If we rely and are in Jesus Christ, we will have corresponding works. But our works will not save us, because we are saved by grace.
That’s how liberals think. Honest disputation is not HATE. Liberals throw out the word HATE to shut down debate.
Anyone with any knowledge of both the Bible and the history of Western Civilization should know there could be nothing more divisive than an open thread on the way of salvation. The Reformers might have continued fighting from within to reform the RCC church if their disagreements were merely over secondary issues. Sadly, the core of the disagreement—and it remains true to this day—concerned the gospel itself. Since the two groups did not agree on the way of salvation, a split was right and necessary. It wasn’t a schism as they did not share a common faith. There is simply no common ground here. And because there is no common ground, posting an article on this particular subject on a discussion website is inevitably going to generate discussion and it is silly to cry foul and act shocked when people discuss and debate vigorously. This particular topic is more important than any other we might discuss, including the dissolution of the USA. Anyone getting the gospel wrong is in grave eternal danger.
Also, I know what, why, and WHOM I believe. There is nothing that could be said here to challenge that or rattle me, so I just don’t let it bother me. I routinely gain new insight and refine my understanding, but I will never change my understanding of the gospel because that lies at the heart of my very being. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ Jesus alone. And because of my absolute certainty, nothing said here has much of an impact on me. I can be mocked and ridiculed. I can be told I’m not a Christian and I’m hell-bound, which happens from time to time. None of that matters and it certainly doesn’t upset me or impact my faith. I suspect some are so touchy because of their lack of certainty and confidence in their church and her systems. I won’t presume that of you, but it seems clear to me that some here cannot handle it when they make an assertion that is immediately challenged with Scripture by someone who might have more knowledge and understanding.
I’ll finish by explaining something of myself. I was raised in church and I was saved as a boy. However, I was also raised to believe a number of sub-biblical things. Whether or not they were heretical ideas is open for debate. We had the gospel right, but there was an awful lot of silliness and unbiblical tradition in what I was taught. I continued on that path until I was in my thirties when I was challenged by a friend who cared enough to tell me I was wrong. Of course I didn’t like being challenged and we had some heated debates and I didn’t like him very much. In an attempt to prove my beliefs, I dove in and studied my Bible with renewed vigor, but I also cried out to the Lord to teach me the truth and show me if I was in error. I did not want to believe a lie just because it was comfortable or because my parents had believed it. It didn’t take long for the Lord to send the truth my way. My eyes were opened and I discovered an entire world of theology that I barely knew existed and it changed the entire course of my life. I could write an entire book on that experience and how it changed me and my family. My point in telling you this is that sometimes the Lord sends messengers who relay hard truths you need to hear. Their willingness to tell the hard truths isn’t hate, it’s love. I am eternally grateful for my friend who loved me enough to risk our friendship to tell me the truth. Actually, he risked much more than friendship. He also risked his job because I had the power to have him fired. My friend didn’t worry about hurting my feelings. In fact, he bluntly told me I was wrong and that I didn’t know the Scriptures as well as I thought I did. And you know what, when he told me I was wrong he was following the biblical example. If you read the New Testament, you find Christ bluntly telling the Scribes and Pharisees they were wrong and that they did not understand the Scriptures.
I’m about to leave so I won’t be around to discuss any of this, but I wish you nothing but grace and peace.
Lovely verse! Thanks.
I need to work on the glory thing, I guess. :-/
How does Mary fit in? It seems that the RCC requires a bit more than those two sentences.
For completeness then, could you work the verse from John’s letter?
(Pardon me if you did and I missed it.)
.....And I thought that Jim called for an end to the inter-Christian bashing a few days ago.
I dunno. I’d say Marian devotion is beneficial. But I never thought of it as required. Strongly suggested, yeah.
Wrong Elsie.
We respect, love and venerate the Blessed Mother. But we do not have to pray to Mary for the forgiveness that Jesus gives us.
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