Posted on 06/25/2015 6:53:00 AM PDT by Salvation
>>“Well yes, Mr. Bryanw92, those will be your responsibility. But you understand the car is a free gift.”
Excellent analogy. I equate those “conditions” with the faith you need and the “call” of Christ to bring you to him.
Now, the rest of the stuff: oil changes, tires, tags, etc are the fruits of salvation. I could own a 911 and never drive it one mile and it would still be mine. The oil would last forever, the tires would never wear out. I could keep it in the garage with no tags or insurance and it would still be mine.
But, I would not get to enjoy it. Same thing with the fruits of our obedience. Its not payment or a condition. They are the things that make Christian life better than secular life because we know that we are living out a public life in Christ.
Now, I would take that Porsche as I took my Christianity: I’d get out there and drive the wheels off it. I’d change the tires, change the oil, buy insurance, etc.
And I would know that if I stopped because I was too tired to drive anymore, that it would still be mine waiting in the garage. No one can come and say, “You didn’t change the oil in the car, so we are taking it away from you.”
Christians are more than disciples. We are in the family, with His Life spark in us. We are indwelt by His Holy Spirit Who is tasked with raising us up in the Way that we should go. We are not ‘following’ to some future destination where Salvation will then be obtained. We are already Saved and His Spirit is in us, evidenced by walking after His Spirit instruction. James wrote about this, as from the human perspective. He said he would show his faith by his works. He didn’t say he would obtain saving faith by his works.
Picking holes in the analogy doesn’t disprove anything, because the analogy doesn’t aim to prove anything. It is merely an illustration, to demonstrate the foolishness of those who think obedience to the King somehow EARNS their way into His kingdom and contradicts His statement that entrance is free.
But in order to prove that Jesus requires something of His disciples, we need only turn to the Scriptures - which we’ve done. Maybe we should ask why some get into the kingdom, while others who want in are shut out. What makes the difference?
I’ll have to leave it there, my friend, since the day’s half gone and I’ve got work that needs doing. But I’ll check back later, so let me know if you think the discussion is worth continuing. :-)
Again, try viewing this new covenant which Jesus introduced on the night of Passover before His crucifixion as a family thing. Then perhaps you can find deeper meaning in the parable of the talents and the servants, deeper than the number of coins banked and gained and taken to give to another. HINT: it is not about getting saved, it is about rewards for those entrusted with His Life. But to ‘get it’ you first have to understand how God’s Life gets into the dead soul of man. God remains Sovereign of His Creation ALL His creation, even His family members.
The post you are continuing to ignore further back in this exchanges was going to go into the people to whom Jesus addresses His words, and their point in the temporal arrangement divided by the cross. When Jesus was preaching the Kingdom arrived, He was preaching tot he Jews, bringing the Kingdom to the Jews, as He graphically illustrated with the woman who came begging for the healing of her daughter. when Jesus addressed His Disciples after His resurrection and before His ascension He gave them as members of His family a family command.
And the power to accomplish that He Promises would arrive 'not many days hence' (at Pentecost). When Jesus addressed Saul on the Road to Damascus, the Gospel was being preached by family members and Saul was persecuting the family. Jesus told Saul it is hard to keep kicking against the prickings of the Gospel preached. When Saul got born from Above, He took up the family business ...
pingaling
My mistake - I misread your statement “Christians are more than disciples” to mean “disciples are less than Christians”. (Now that WOULD have been an error, huh? But it’s not what you meant at all.)
Thank you for explaining, my friend, and please forgive my misunderstanding you.
Now I really must go. :-)
bE SAFE, AND THANKS FOR THE ENGAGING DISCUSSION!
Someone either believes in the power and perfection of the Holy Spirit, or they don't.
John 14:24He that loveth me not, keepeth not my words. And the word which you have heard, is not mine; but the Father's who sent me.
John 14:25These things have I spoken to you, abiding with you.
John 14:26But the Paraclete, the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring all things to your mind, whatsoever I shall have said to you.
John 21:24This is that disciple who giveth testimony of these things, and hath written these things; and we know that his testimony is true.
John 21:25But there are also many other things which Jesus did ; which, if they were written every one, the world itself, I think, would not be able to contain the books that should be written.
Scripture states that the Holy Spirit will teach the Apostles all things and will ". . . bring all things . . ." to the minds of the Apostles. Scripture also clearly states that there are many other things Christ did, so many the author uses the phrase, ". . . the world itself, I think, would not contain the books that should be written" to describe how much else was done.
We have a good bit that was written by people who were ordained by the Apostles and we know what those who were ordained by the Apostles learned was based on what the Apostles taught them, brought to the remembrance of the Apostles by the Holy Spirit. The Apostles taught those they ordained how to interpret Scriputure plus all those things that were not written down, the huge volume of what Christ did that does not appear in Scripture.
What those who were taught by and ordained by the Apostles handed down is identical to what the Catholic Church has always taught and still teaches including the fact that Christ left us a visible, organized, Church and the fact that the authority given the Apostles passes down to those they ordained. Then through those who the Apostles ordained to us through those who are ordained generation after generation.
As I said, someone either believes in the power and perfection of the Holy Spirit, or they don't.
Someone who believes in the power and perfection of the Holy Spirit knows the Holy Spirit protects the Truth as it passes down to us including the proper interpretation of what was written down as Scripture.
Those who deny the perfection and the power of the Holy Spirit by throwing Scripture in the garbage prove that while they believe in the perfection of anti-Christ, anti-Christian, Jewish Rabbis and are therefore Pharisees of the school of Jamnia, they absolutely refuse to accept the the power and perfection of the Holy Spirit. Like true Pharisees, they reject Christ because they demand a Savior of their own fashioning.
When someone denies the perfection of the Holy Spirit they’re both denying the Trinity and blaspheming the Holy Spirit.
Christ tells us that a bad tree does not bear good fruit so anyone who blasphemes the Holy Spirit cannot understand and correctly interpret Scripture as blaspheming the Holy Spirit is not just the hallmark of a bad tree, it's the hallmark of the worst sort of bad tree. A tree that grows out of the sin Christ says cannot be forgiven in this life or the next.
What anyone who blasphemes the Holy Spirit has to say with regard to Christianity or Scripture is worthless even when, like Satan, they mix Scripture or a proper interpretation of Scripture in with their lies the same way good feed has rat poison mixed in to kill those who swallow it. Mixing the poison of Self and Self Alone into interpretation of Scripture is the same thing as mixing the poison into good feed and leads to the damnation of those who swallow it.
Like Satan, such folks quote Scripture. Like Satan they follow their Self and Self Alone rather than Christ. Like like Satan they lead others away from Christ and to their Self.
Whether they intend to lead others away from Christ or are simply themselves under the strong diabolical delusion Satan spreads makes no difference. Either way, such folks are Judas goats leading sheep to their own destruction.
Proof of the Truth of these facts is not only in Scripture, it’s staring everyone in this country in the face every day.
When there are no longer a sufficient number of faithful Catholics and other Christians in a society to resist those anxious to take the doctrine of Self and Self Alone to it’s logical conclusion, the society becomes a Pagan society exactly the why the United States has now officially embraced Paganism.
Have a nice day
Serve Rome, serve the Vatican which is making arrangements for the ET gods to whom your pope will bow. Serve Rome, and be served up by the non-Christian pope and his minions.
Keep it up, see if you can lead a few more souls to turn away from the truth in the Bible and follow your 'self and self alone' foolishness. EVERY Christian is in God's family and has the Holy Spirit indwelling them, so they are never alone, never following self. They are being raised up in the Way that they should go by the Spirit of the family within them. Paul explained that in minute detail, details which apparently are too tough for catholics to comprehend but simple enough for children. So some catholic sacrilege apologists bleat 'self and self alone', or the alternate foolishness catholic's like to bleat, 'sola scriptura'. Meanwhile, the Christians on this Planet hear the Shepard's voice and follow Him. They ignore the bleating of satan's little helpers.
That is our ASSURANCE that everything recorded in the scriptures is inspired and infallible..the word of God..
Scripture also clearly states that there are many other things Christ did, so many the author uses the phrase, ". . . the world itself, I think, would not contain the books that should be written" to describe how much else was done.
The exact quote is... John 21:25 Douay-Rheims Bible
But there are also many other things which Jesus DID ; which, if they were written every one, the world itself, I think, would not be able to contain the books that should be written.
WORDS MEAN THINGS... Jesus DID many things..not taught other things or spoke other things, or practiced other things... .. this refers to His miracles
Everything God wanted us to know was recorded under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit...
Only about 15% or so of all Mormons will get to be with GOD the Father on Level One.
Thank you so much for sharing your insights and testimony, dear brother in Christ!
bump
Bkmk
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