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To: ealgeone
Uh, context ?

Then why throw out James making it crystal clear that faith alone is foolishness?

That we're to obey our prelates?

And that the heresy of Korah leads to destruction ?

Nah, whenever a Protestant blabbers out, "context" it's because they can't defend their twisting of what Scripture clearly states or their refusal to accept what Scripture clearly states.

God incarnate made himself perfectly clear in both places with regard to His Son and His Body, which is exactly why everyone except the twelve Apostles left him, they refused to accept what Christ said. In that regard, the vast majority of Protestant folks are just like the people who walked away from Christ because they, too, refuse to accept what Christ says.

101 posted on 06/23/2015 2:38:46 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: Rashputin
"Then why throw out James making it crystal clear that faith alone is foolishness?" No one is throwing out James, but it would behoove catholics to read the words of James in context. James even gives the hallmarking clue when he says 'I will show you my faith'. He is immediately pointing to a reality which God sees and James can only infer through works. James was not saying works are needed to obtain Salvation, to obtain saving Faith. To an awakened mind he is saying the works are evidence of the faith that Is From God. Remember, you can of your self do nothing of a righteous nature. Without The Righteousness of God in you, your works are as flthy rags.

The carnal mind cannot help but focus upon spiritual things with a carnal slant. "... which is exactly why everyone except the twelve Apostles left him, they refused to accept what Christ said." 'They' the devout Jews, believed that 'they' could have spiritual life of God by obeying the laws of God. What Jesus was saying to them opposed that prideful perspective and in inferring His coming death for them it contradicted what they thought He was there to do in the flesh, establish again the throne of David.

And Jesus used a metaphorical violation of the very law of God, a commandment to not eat the blood and to not commit cannibalism, as a meas to expose their false way to find salvation. That a catholic cannot see this clear use of metaphor and the disobedience tot he commandment of God to ALL THEIR GENERATIONS is symptomatic of the very same perspective in c atholicism. The spiritual meaning is contrary to their pride in self worth via their works of 'penitence' or 'righteousness' or 'charity' ... doe in the flesh not the spirit because they have yet to receive His Life, His Spirit into them by faith.

103 posted on 06/23/2015 3:00:06 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Is it really all relative, Mister Einstein?)
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To: Rashputin

I haven’t heard anyone, other than you, talk about throwing out James. In fact, if you study James and Paul in context you will see they are not arguing against each other....hence they both cite Abraham as an example of faith and works.


123 posted on 06/23/2015 5:17:16 PM PDT by ealgeone
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To: Rashputin
Then why throw out James making it crystal clear that faith alone is foolishness?

And Paul says this here.

Galatians 2: 15-21 "We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners; yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

But if, in our endeavor to be justified in Christ, we too were found to be sinners, is Christ then a servant of sin? Certainly not! For if I rebuild what I tore down, I prove myself to be a transgressor. For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God. I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose."

So who's right?

154 posted on 06/23/2015 7:15:08 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: Rashputin
And that the heresy of Korah leads to destruction ?

I see someone was studying the weekly Torah portion, and some say Catholics do not know the scriptures ...

I find the story of Korah a profound example of apostolic succession and Protestantism pre-figured.

Now Korah, the son of Izhar, the son of Kohath, the son of Levi, and Dathan and Abiram, the sons of Eliab, and On, the son of Peleth, sons of Reuben, took men: And they rose up before Moses, with certain of the children of Israel, two hundred and fifty princes of the assembly, famous in the congregation, men of renown: And they gathered themselves together against Moses and against Aaron, and said unto them, Ye take too much upon you, seeing all the congregation are holy, every one of them, and the Lord is among them: wherefore then lift ye up yourselves above the congregation of the Lord? And when Moses heard it, he fell upon his face: And he spake unto Korah and unto all his company, saying, Even to morrow the Lord will shew who are his, and who is holy; and will cause him to come near unto him: even him whom he hath chosen will he cause to come near unto him. This do; Take you censers, Korah, and all his company; And put fire therein, and put incense in them before the Lord to morrow: and it shall be that the man whom the Lord doth choose, he shall be holy: ye take too much upon you, ye sons of Levi. And Moses said unto Korah, Hear, I pray you, ye sons of Levi: Seemeth it but a small thing unto you, that the God of Israel hath separated you from the congregation of Israel, to bring you near to himself to do the service of the tabernacle of the Lord, and to stand before the congregation to minister unto them? And he hath brought thee near to him, and all thy brethren the sons of Levi with thee: and seek ye the priesthood also? For which cause both thou and all thy company are gathered together against the Lord: and what is Aaron, that ye murmur against him? And Moses sent to call Dathan and Abiram, the sons of Eliab: which said, We will not come up: Is it a small thing that thou hast brought us up out of a land that floweth with milk and honey, to kill us in the wilderness, except thou make thyself altogether a prince over us? Moreover thou hast not brought us into a land that floweth with milk and honey, or given us inheritance of fields and vineyards: wilt thou put out the eyes of these men? we will not come up. And Moses was very wroth, and said unto the Lord, Respect not thou their offering: I have not taken one ass from them, neither have I hurt one of them. And Moses said unto Korah, Be thou and all thy company before the Lord, thou, and they, and Aaron, to morrow: And take every man his censer, and put incense in them, and bring ye before the Lord every man his censer, two hundred and fifty censers; thou also, and Aaron, each of you his censer. And they took every man his censer, and put fire in them, and laid incense thereon, and stood in the door of the tabernacle of the congregation with Moses and Aaron. And Korah gathered all the congregation against them unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation: and the glory of the Lord appeared unto all the congregation. And the Lord spake unto Moses and unto Aaron, saying, Separate yourselves from among this congregation, that I may consume them in a moment. And they fell upon their faces, and said, O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh, shall one man sin, and wilt thou be wroth with all the congregation? And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, Speak unto the congregation, saying, Get you up from about the tabernacle of Korah, Dathan, and Abiram. And Moses rose up and went unto Dathan and Abiram; and the elders of Israel followed him. And he spake unto the congregation, saying, Depart, I pray you, from the tents of these wicked men, and touch nothing of their's, lest ye be consumed in all their sins. So they gat up from the tabernacle of Korah, Dathan, and Abiram, on every side: and Dathan and Abiram came out, and stood in the door of their tents, and their wives, and their sons, and their little children. And Moses said, Hereby ye shall know that the Lord hath sent me to do all these works; for I have not done them of mine own mind. If these men die the common death of all men, or if they be visited after the visitation of all men; then the Lord hath not sent me. But if the Lord make a new thing, and the earth open her mouth, and swallow them up, with all that appertain unto them, and they go down quick into the pit; then ye shall understand that these men have provoked the Lord. And it came to pass, as he had made an end of speaking all these words, that the ground clave asunder that was under them: And the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up, and their houses, and all the men that appertained unto Korah, and all their goods. They, and all that appertained to them, went down alive into the pit, and the earth closed upon them: and they perished from among the congregation. And all Israel that were round about them fled at the cry of them: for they said, Lest the earth swallow us up also. And there came out a fire from the Lord, and consumed the two hundred and fifty men that offered incense. And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, Speak unto Eleazar the son of Aaron the priest, that he take up the censers out of the burning, and scatter thou the fire yonder; for they are hallowed. The censers of these sinners against their own souls, let them make them broad plates for a covering of the altar: for they offered them before the Lord, therefore they are hallowed: and they shall be a sign unto the children of Israel. And Eleazar the priest took the brasen censers, wherewith they that were burnt had offered; and they were made broad plates for a covering of the altar: To be a memorial unto the children of Israel, that no stranger, which is not of the seed of Aaron, come near to offer incense before the Lord; that he be not as Korah, and as his company: as the Lord said to him by the hand of Moses. But on the morrow all the congregation of the children of Israel murmured against Moses and against Aaron, saying, Ye have killed the people of the Lord. And it came to pass, when the congregation was gathered against Moses and against Aaron, that they looked toward the tabernacle of the congregation: and, behold, the cloud covered it, and the glory of the Lord appeared. And Moses and Aaron came before the tabernacle of the congregation. And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, Get you up from among this congregation, that I may consume them as in a moment. And they fell upon their faces. And Moses said unto Aaron, Take a censer, and put fire therein from off the altar, and put on incense, and go quickly unto the congregation, and make an atonement for them: for there is wrath gone out from the Lord; the plague is begun. And Aaron took as Moses commanded, and ran into the midst of the congregation; and, behold, the plague was begun among the people: and he put on incense, and made an atonement for the people. And he stood between the dead and the living; and the plague was stayed. Now they that died in the plague were fourteen thousand and seven hundred, beside them that died about the matter of Korah. And Aaron returned unto Moses unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation: and the plague was stayed.
Numbers, Catholic chapter sixteen, in its entirety,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James

217 posted on 06/24/2015 5:49:25 AM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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