Posted on 06/01/2015 11:54:08 AM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
I am not equation homosexuality or heterosexuality with pedophilia, nor am I saying that Josh Duggar ever committed homosexual acts at any point in time in any way, shape. form or fashion.
The point of this thread is like all of the others threads that I have written, and it is not meant to bash Josh Duggar. The point is to look at this situation and use it as a catalyst to continue on with other threads that I have started that deal with the following: "What constitutes salvation?" "Who is truly saved?" "Do we go by Arminianism or Calvinism?"
If Josh Duggar committed acts of molestation at age 14-15 (allegedly) and if what the Duggars have said is true that Josh Duggar gave his life to Jesus at age 7-8, was Josh Duggar truly saved at that age or was he falsely saved?
If he was saved at age 7-8 and later did commit these alleged acts, did he lose his salvation at that time of the alleged acts or sometime before he committed these alleged acts?
A.) I believe that 1.) molesting kids is a sin just as 2.) homosexuality is. There are those who disagree with me and say that 1 is a sin but 2 is not. So be it. The point that all would agree on is that #1 is at least equal to or worse a sin than #2 is, be #1 being same sex or opposite sex molestation.
If Josh Duggar committed these alleged acts then and was saved before he committed these alleged acts and saved still even after committing these alleged acts, can another person then commit homosexual acts at that age and still be saved both before and after committing them?
If not, and a person at age 14-15 commits homosexual acts and this is proof that they were falsely saved and were never saved to begin with, then was Josh Duggar, if he committed these alleged acts, falsely saved at that time?
If so, and he and his family said after he was age 7-8 that he was saved, how do we know now that he is saved if he says now that he is saved? How can we know wh9ch Duggar is saved and which isn't?
How do we know that some 'Joe Blow' person out there who goes down to the altar, is heard giving his life to Jesus, shows good fruit until he is 18, goes off to Bible college to become a Baptist minister and is still showing good fruit, graduates, becomes a youth minister and then later on goes off the rail after his wife and child die in a car accident and is out fornicating, smoking pot like it is going out of style, drinking like a fish and so on? Was this 'Joe Blow' ever truly saved?
If he is "out of fellowship with Christ" but still saved then if a person were to commit these alleged acts that Josh allegedly committed, would they be "out of fellowship" with Christ but still saved? If so, and #1 is at least worse than or as bad as #2 in A.) above, can a person commit homosexual acts and be "out of fellowship with Christ" yet still saved?
I have read at least a dozen different interpretations of this difficult verse from Paul many not having do with the issue at hand. It is beyond the scope of this forum to go over them and I don't want to hijack the thread so I'm going to leave it alone. I've got to believe Peter had verses like this in mind when he commented that in Paul's letters "there are some things hard to understand" (2 Peter 3:16) LOL.
I think it means that his time before the judgment seat of Christ will include a memorable, scorching punishment. I don’t know how else to read it.
But I don’t see anything in the verse or the immediate context dealing with salvation or judgment at all. Like I said, I have read many different interpretations for this verse by many smart, Godly men. In fact, the precope heading for chapter 3 in the NASB is “Foundations for Living”. I’m not going to get into them on this thread.
But I don’t see anything in the verse or the immediate context dealing with salvation or judgment at all. Like I said, I have read many different interpretations for this verse by many smart, Godly men. In fact, the precope heading for chapter 3 in the NASB is “Foundations for Living”. I’m not going to get into them on this thread.
It uses the word “saved” in the verse, so it is about salvation.
Neither Josh Duggar or any of his family were instantly "saved" in the past, whether or not they think they are. Salvation is a lifelong process.
Romans 7:24-25King James Version (KJV)
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Could we just clarify that while the Duggars claim to be baptist they are actually Gothardites who follow cult teachings.
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