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To: Elsie

-— I trust NO church! -—

Do you trust the Church that Christ established? Or do you believe that it no longer exists?

“If he will not listen to the church, treat him as a pagan or tax collector.” —Jesus

Why did Jesus give this enormous authority to His Church while He was still with us?

Why did this earthly Authority dissolve?


143 posted on 05/26/2015 12:23:23 PM PDT by St_Thomas_Aquinas ( Isaiah 22:22, Matthew 16:19, Revelation 3:7)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas; Elsie
“If he will not listen to the church, treat him as a pagan or tax collector.” —Jesus

STA.....context is key.

15“If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16“But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED. 17“If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. 18“Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven (Matthew 18:15-18).

145 posted on 05/26/2015 12:27:22 PM PDT by ealgeone
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas
That verse, taken out of context AGAIN, has been corrected many times and since it appears that it has not yet sunk in, I will post the verse IN CONTEXT again.....

This passage is not a blanket order to obey the leadership of any church which claims that it alone is the one true church.

It is at the end of a discourse addressing how to handle disputes in the body.

It lays out very specifically the steps one is to go through in resolving personal conflict within the body.

Matthew 18:15-20 “If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church.

And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.”

NOWHERE does Jesus command us to "listen to the church".

The comment is *IF he does not listen to the church, then......*

That is a gross misinterpretation of the passage to claim or imply that it is a standing order of Jesus to listen to the Catholic church.

The clear meaning is here for everyone to see. It's dealing with disputes among believers, not absolute authority given to *the Church*.

156 posted on 05/26/2015 1:47:40 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas
Do you trust the Church that Christ established?

Reading comprehension a bit LOW today?

168 posted on 05/26/2015 3:13:59 PM PDT by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas
“If he will not listen to the church, treat him as a pagan or tax collector.” —Jesus

..being SEVERELY edited by a minion of Rome.


Is this the ONLY tune you play?

169 posted on 05/26/2015 3:15:01 PM PDT by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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