Posted on 05/22/2015 4:54:44 PM PDT by OK Sun
I have been taught Dispensationalism from my mother’s womb. I was born in a dispensational environment. It was assumed at my church to be a part of the Gospel. There was never another option presented. It made sense. It helped me put together the Scriptures in a way that cleared up so much confusion. And, to be honest, the emphasis on the coming tribulation, current events that prove the Bible’s prophecy, the fear that the Antichrist may be alive today (who is he?) was all quite exciting. But what might be the biggest attraction for me is the charts! Oh how I love charts. I think in charts. And dispensationalism is a theology of charts!
The first time I came across someone who was not a Dispensationalist was in 1999. I am not kidding. It was the first time! I don’t think I even knew if there was another view. It was when I was a student at Dallas Theological Seminary (the bastion of Dispensationalism) and I was swimming with some guys who were at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. Once they discovered I was a dispensationalist, they giggled and snickered. They made fun of the rapture, the sacrificial system during the millennium, and the mark of the beast (which, at that time, was some type of barcode). It was as if they patted me on the head and said “It’s okay . . . nice little dispensationalist.” I was so angry. I was humiliated. I was a second-rate theologian. They were “Covenantalists” (whatever that was). But they were the cool guys who believed in the historic Christian faith and I was the cultural Christian, believing in novel ideas.
(Excerpt) Read more at reclaimingthemind.org ...
I suppose one chooses to come out conservative or liberal. I got an “A” in his class but could tell he leaned towards liberalism. Then I saw him on TV in a special; one where they were looking for the liberal view of Bible Prophecy.
I wasn’t really surprised but disappointed. But it was most certainly not a surprise at all.
Again, and again...God's Wrath will not be suffered by the believer. (I Thess. 5:9, I Thess. 1:10).
Those verses are not about man/satan's persecution...(that has been happening from the beginning of the Church and will continue until the Rapture.) Those verses are about God's Wrath seen in the Book of Revelation, from which we are exempt.
I have heard it said the thief on the cross was baptized. With nails. As was Our Lord, for a second baptism.
The Church has been under persecutions since the beginning and will continue until the Rapture.
Looking at the attitudes of political leadership in this country, things could get nasty here soon.
THE wrath (of God) has not yet come. The Church by its nature will not be subject to that one.
That's not what the scripture says...When you pervert scripture you can make it mean anything you want...
BookMarking
The WRATH of God does not fall on God's own people...The wrath of God is reserved for those who have persecuted God's people (the Great Tribulation), those who you are speaking of...
What you are speaking of in the above paragraph can happen at any time, and it's happening now in other countries...THAT is NOT the wrath of God...
Those are the people who will face world wide cataclysmic destruction upon the earth; not God's people...God's people will be removed from the earth before God wreaks havoc upon the earth...
Well, actually you are. We are grafted in.
We are not grafted into Israel...We are grafted into Jesus Christ; the church...
They (believing Israel) are grafted into Jesus Christ as well, where there is no Jew nor Greek)...
Rom 9:3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
Rom 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
Israel is adopted into Jesus Christ just as we Gentiles are...WE are not adopted into Israel...
I don't believe it's so easy for the unsaved to understand...I know it wasn't for me...
Amen and Amen.
The Church has been under persecutions since the beginning and will continue until the Rapture.
Looking at the attitudes of political leadership in this country, things could get nasty here soon.
THE wrath (of God) has not yet come. The Church by its nature will not be subject to that one.
There are other things to consider on the rest, for instance the hundreds of years the Church ran the world.
When it happens here I believe denomination will be the last thing on any ones mind.
Actually, you did great.
You explained that very clearly.
Well said,
Replacement theology is a blasphemous heresy and responsible for much antisemitism in this world, unfortunately its also the default heritage of many mainstream denominations who believe the promises to Israel have now devolved upon the Church, that is a lie and makes God out to be a liar.
God is a covenant keeper. He made promises to David and to the Land and for his Holy name and they will be kept once the transgressors (Israel of 32 AD) have come to the full punitive measures outlined within that same covenant as it is required in Leviticus Chapter 25, Deuteronomy, Daniel Chapters 7 and 9, Zephaniah and in the Psalms, Joel, Revelation and elsewhere.
There is a set time for that restoration to be accomplished, we’re told exactly how long that time is (we will have no excuse for not knowing when it is up because we know the precise conditions to account for that time) and it will not be altered despite what this world system empowered by Satan or his synagogue attempts or desires to claim or steal away. They (the USA/UN/EU or whoever it may be along with secular Israel etc.,) are attempting to steal the Messiahs inheritance, it’s as we’re shown in the parable of the wicked tenets, he sent his only Son in the middle of the week (surely they will hear him) and by the end of the week it will all be over or else ownership is forfeited, he will not forfeit (what more could he have done)
When the restoration work of these same transgressors is undone, that is when the end of the age will come as it will be the undoing of that very legal mechanism by which they are presently being restored on this physical Earth, (today, right now in our time, in our sight and in our hearing)
The Church is not under these punitive measures and is set upon a pedestal with the Gospel (accepting that very Jubilee Israel itself rejected) and we are set down next to Jesus who is set down next to his Father and that ‘mystery’ to Satan and his angels will end when Satan is no longer allowed in Heaven to accuse the brethren on the Earth, when he no longer has a place to stand and is summarily cast out as we’re shown in Revelation Chapter 12, the court from Daniel Chapter 7 and Revelation Chapters 5 - 7 is in session to adjudicate these matters of the Kingdom of God, both in Heaven (for the Church and the Kingdom of Heaven) and now on the Earth where his promises are being kept (for Israel)
“I know your works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but you are rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.” Revelation 2:9
“Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.” Revelation 3:9
That is the most carefully crafted non sequitur I have ever read at FR! You cannot possibly be that dull of wit. Jesus came to rescue 'Jerusalem' (the Hebrews, as agglomerated under the heading of Jerusalem, as He showed when He stood looking over Jerusalem just before His trial and crucifixion). God had no intention of 'taking Himself' (in the person of Jesus) away from the cross.
As to taking up the cross, you will notice that passage comes days before the hint of a trial and crucifixion even entered the minds of His audience!
Jesus told His little group (the Olivet discourse recorded in Mark 13 and Matthew 24) 'As in the days of Noah, so shall it be in the Coming of the Son of Man.' And in the days of Noah, Enoch WAS taken out before the hour of the destruction, even before it started raining! One was rescued even before the start of the destruction/judgment, then eight were saved through/during the process that destroyed all others. Believers are The Body of Christ. One will be taken out before the judgment begins. And some, as shown in Revelations, will be saved even as the destructions come upon the rest.
“Covenant Theology = two covenants”?
If you read the full blog post, the guy's still a dispensationalist (of the modern "progressive" sort). He just doesn't want to call himself that. As such, I wouldn't count on him necessarily being clear on the nuances of internal CT debates.
(Similarly I don't attempt to follow, pay any attention to or throw myself into their "pre|mid|post-trib, pre-wrath, etc." debate.)
"(But to all you who know what I am talking about, I am still a dispensationalist . . . shhh, don’t tell anyone)." -- C. Michael Patton, our author
I read that the progressive dispensationalists are moving in a positive direction. Good, I guess. There's still plenty of the old classic dispys out there in the churches and among the pop pundits, that O. T. Allis wrote about a lifetime ago.
That seems to be the case. All I know for sure is that I’m not Israel, Israel is Israel although she is, for the time being, blinded. But God is going to remove the scales from her eyes, as soon as we are raptured outta here and the tribulation begins. :) --smvoiceOHH... so covenant theology = replacement theology? --Safrguns
Y'all might find this useful to work through: Itunes U, NT133: Biblical Theology by Dr. Gregory Beale. In fact, anything by Beale is worth working through.
The article in this thread is a good place to start:
Four Views on the Millennium
But that's Ok, people who want to stand on the roof of their survival bunker waiting for The Surrender of Christ to Satan and the Great Evacuation will enjoy themselves and buy lots of books.
**Paul says there is NOW ONE BAPTISM.**
You’re indicating that Jesus Christ’s commissions (at the end of the gospels) were short lived, as well as his instructions for rebirth to Nicodemas (there is ONE rebirth).
Many regard Paul to be the writer of Hebrews, considered by the experts (whoever thay were) to be written two years after the epistle to the Ephesians, which says “of the ‘doctrine of baptisms”: “and this we will do, if God permit”.
Remember that Paul was reminding born again believers of the gospel, otherwise he wouldn’t be saying in Heb. 6:1-3:
“Therefore LEAVING the principals of the doctrine of Christ, let us GO ON TO PERFECTION, not LAYING AGAIN the FOUNDATION of (1)repentance from dead works, (2)and of faith toward God, (3)Of the doctrine of baptisms, (4)and the laying on of hands, (5)and of resurrection of the dead, (6)and of eternal judgement. And this we will do if God permit.” (added the numbers in parentheses)
So, of the things that I listed numerically, you would only remove the plural ‘s’ from ‘baptisms’?
As to Paul being the author of Hebrews, that I do not believe. I know that most people believe that to be true, but I have a problem with that: If Paul wrote Hebrews, written To the Hebrews, he forgot about the main makeup of the Body of Christ; the Gentiles. He states clearly that there is NOW one new man, neither Jew nor Gentile, in the body of Christ. Why in the world would he write to only one part of that Body? Why would he make that differentiation if there was NOW no difference? It doesn't make sense scripturally. I understand that many regard him at the author. I also understand that all do not know. Paul signed his epistles by "the hand of Paul" or similar style. Hebrews is not signed at all.
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