I think we so often relate to His death and resurrection as salvation for us so it's not often we speak of the "victory" at the cross as His Triumph...and it was a powerful victory!
Posted on 05/22/2015 4:54:44 PM PDT by OK Sun
I would disagree...
Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
1Th 4:9 Now concerning brotherly love you have no need for anyone to write to you, for you yourselves have been taught by God to love one another,
And, this is a wonderful gift from God that He would force us to walk in His statues and obey His ordiances.
But their pride and selfishness will not accept even so Great a Promise.
And so were we until God opened our eyes and ears.
The issue was with you, referring to what i was responding to did not necessitate involving the poster who said she(?) was not going to say anymore. Which I concurred that was best, and after the "disgraceful" censures hurled afterwards anyway, then i think that would be best.
t Paul also presented the death of Christ as bad news. HE DID NOT.
He most certainly did, by plainly warning them of the consequences of rejecting the message, and by extension the Christ of it, which is just what Peter did, except that he was addressing the very souls in Jerusalem that personally were culpable to some degree.
Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets; Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you. (Acts 13:40-41)
Look at what is actually being expressed. That is definitely bad news for rejecting Christ, which is only because Christ came and was slain.
But likewise to Acts 13, what Peter also preached the cross as good news, since this marked the promise of the beginning of the days of salvation in which "whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved," which faith is what they were signifying by being baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, confessing Him ever more manifestly than by just the mouth.
. 39Through him everyone who believes is set free from every sin, a justification you were not able to obtain under the law of Moses..
Which Peter preached to non-Torah souls in Acts 10:43, but a primary HD criteria for a different gospel is that of expressly preaching that Christ died for our sins, which neither Peter or Paul are ever recorded as expressly preaching, but is seen in letters by both Peter and Paul.
And it's interesting that you referenced Acts 13 because we have in that chapter an example of what Peter was preaching at Pentecost. Acts 13:24 Before the coming of Jesus, John preached repentance and baptism to all the people of Israel. Peter was preaching essentially the same message as John the Baptist was.
Not so, "be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost," requires faith in the crucified and risen Holy One, is not the same as the baptism of John, which awaited the Atonement of Christ, and was not that of confessing the Lord Jesus, who Himself was baptized by John.
Instead, it was an extension of the ritual washing of sanctified things, signifying cleansing and dedication, under the rubric of the yearly atonement, and ultimately Christ.
As I said in an earlier post to you. I think you are not taking into consideration the time-line of Peter's message. He clearly changed after Paul was introduced and surely did after the incident with Cornelius.
No, his message did not change, for as explained before, Peter preached to both Jews in Acts 2 and Gentiles in Acts 10 essentially the same message, baptism being that same as confession of faith with mouth in Rm. 10:9,10.
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Acts 2 |
Acts 10 |
Comment |
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Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: (Acts 2:22) |
How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. (Acts 10:38) |
Subject is Jesus of Nazareth; miracles of God are credentials |
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Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: (Acts 2:23) And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses. (Acts 3:15) |
And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree: (Acts 10:39) |
Unjust crucifixion, of which the apostles are witnesses |
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This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. (Acts 2:32) |
Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly; Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead. (Acts 10:40-41) |
Resurrection, of which the apostles are witnesses |
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For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Until I make thy foes thy footstool. (Acts 2:34-35) |
And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. (Acts 10:42) |
Exaltation by God as right hand/judge of all. |
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Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. (Acts 2:36) |
The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:) (Acts 10:36) |
Jesus as Lord preached, sent first to house of Israel |
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And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. (Acts 2:21) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. (Acts 2:38,39) |
To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. (Acts 10:43) Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? (Acts 10:47) |
Remission of sins for whosoever shall call upon, believe in (with repentant faith), with confession this faith in baptism coming first in Acts 2, as to do so requires and evidences faith, which appropriates justification. |
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That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. (Romans 10:9-13) |
Truly believing in heart justifies, but salvation is promised to those who who call upon the Lord, confess faith, which baptism does, as to do so requires and evidences faith, which appropriates justification. |
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He clearly changed after Paul was introduced and surely did after the incident with Cornelius.
No, as his intro to Paul came before Acts 10, which was attacked as not preaching that Christ died for our sins, and for preaching baptism, which smvoice held as being part of the other gospel. We actually see no more preaching by Peter after Acts 15, in which he affirms what he preached in Acts 10 as being salvation by grace. Only in his epistles do we see clear statements of Christ's death being atonement, which was implicit in Acts 2 and 10, as needed for forgiveness. Thus we see no priesthood in the early NT church, except that of all believers.
“And, this is a wonderful gift from God that He would force us to walk in His statues and obey His ordiances.” Satan could not have framed it any more perfectly ... and it is his sort of lie regardless of who is foolish enough to say it. What you have proclaimed with this falsehood is that God treats His creation as puppets and He the puppetmaster. God forbid such a lie goes any further than FR ...
Matt 22:34-37 But when the Pharisees heard that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered themselves together. One of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?"And He said to him, "'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.' This is the great and foremost commandment."
Ask your soul why would God make it a commandment if He was going to make his puppets dance that way anyway? That is the way satan would run the Universe, compelling all to worship him. But love cannot be compelled else it is no longer love.
The majesty of God's Grace toward us is that He offers it to any who will accept it. If He compelled you to accept it then it is nothing but puppeteering. The God you think you know is far from Whom He actually is. He is Love, not despot, love. How could you worship Him in spirit and truth if you had no choice to accept or not?
Think what kind of God would began the entire plan of Salvation with 'He will send to Hell whom he creates for hell and to heaven him whom he creates for Heaven.' God is Creator and thus Sovereign, but if He is love he makes a way for any who will to find eternal life by His work upon the substitutional cross. The cross means nothing but an ostentacious display if those who will accept it have no choice but to accept it.
As creator and Sovereign He can create the system wherein choice can be made even as He can see from the beginning to the end. The great beauty of Love is that God so loved the world that HE GAVE His only begotten son. If no one has a choice to accept or reject His Son, what does that make of such a Gift? No gift at all, merely another willful act by a self-centered being, not acting in love but in petulance.
Think what kind of God would began the entire plan of Salvation with 'He will send to Hell whom he creates for hell and to heaven him whom he creates for Heaven.' God is Creator and thus Sovereign, but if He is love he makes a way for any who will to find eternal life by His work upon the substitutional cross. The cross means nothing but an ostentatious display if those who will accept it have no choice but to accept it.
As creator and Sovereign He can create the system wherein choice can be made even as He can see from the beginning to the end. The great beauty of Love is that God so loved the world that HE GAVE His only begotten son. If no one has a choice to accept or reject His Son, what does that make of such a Gift? No gift at all, merely another willful act by a self-centered being, not acting in love but in petulance.
bump
Rom 9:22-23 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
God will and does use what ever means he determines to draw people to himself....before they look to God...and even then not all called will agree with what God says about their sin nor about Jesus even after they hear the message. They will still have a choice to agree with what God says their sin, salvation etc. that’s entailed in the Gospel Message.
Just as all the Christians being used of God to show catholics the truth who choose to believe otherwise. They can be presented with the truth but deny it.
bump again
.....”It is of our free will that we choose His offered Grace”....
Amen!
Titus says the grace of God has appeared to all men, not some, but ALL... It is there for everyone to apprehend if they will listen. ..... God does not pick out any culture or people group to perish, neither does he do this with individuals..... The bible makes it clear Christ is the only way to God. No one is born a Christian, but must be reborn to be one..... This gives everyone a level playing field.
(Let us Reason)
Salvation is not by works, but I don’t see us as responding to God as a *work*.
I actually like that better than any other explanation I've heard.
I think we so often relate to His death and resurrection as salvation for us so it's not often we speak of the "victory" at the cross as His Triumph...and it was a powerful victory!
I have read hear some views that state that all the people that were in Abraham’s Bosom ascended into heaven when Christ ascended into heaven. These people were set free....that this was leading captivity captive.
Other views declare that the saints were delivered from sin and the law. These people were set free.....that this was leading captivity captive.
But to me the word captive is the opposite of being set free. If someone is being led captive how can they be set free?
So basically the views come down to this:
... leading captivity captive either means setting someone free or it means leading them into captivity. It has to be one or the other but it can’t mean both because they are opposites.
I have read hear some views that state that all the people that were in Abraham’s Bosom ascended into heaven when Christ ascended into heaven. These people were set free....that this was leading captivity captive.
Other views declare that the saints were delivered from sin and the law. These people were set free.....that this was leading captivity captive.
But to me the word captive is the opposite of being set free. If someone is being led captive how can they be set free?
So basically the views come down to this:
... leading captivity captive either means setting someone free or it means leading them into captivity. It has to be one or the other but it can’t mean both because they are opposites.
I LIKE that.
Paul was accused of the same thing. There is not a single thing that you have that has not been given to you.
Fact is we are not puppets. The true fact is we really are really wicked creatures at heart who don't want to be obedient to God. He has to change our hearts and bend our wills to follow Him. And this is something He does each and every day.
This is the fact that is lost on people. They like to think they did it.
That is the lie of Satan.
It is a matter of the bending of the will. Before we are saved our will was to practice sin-we never do the things of God. After we are saved God bends our will to desire and follow Him. So believers DO have a choice to follow God's will or our will. But if that will was "free" that would mean that we would ALWAYS follow God's will, would it not? But that is not the case.
Our will is to be disobedient. God puts His Spirit in us to cause us to walk in His statues and obey His ordiances. Now would you say that sounds like being puppets?
You are assuming that we "accept or reject" God. The true fact of this matter is that we are a rebellious people that has already rejected God. God is out to save some of us from ourselves. This is grace and mercy-and they are gifts.
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