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To: Wilhelm Tell
This strains credibility.

Really? Is it so hard to believe that Paul was correct in Acts? That false teachers would come in almost immediately?

That by the time John wrote the letters to the churches in Rev. that most were already in various stages of apostasy ... EVEN THOUGH those churches were only 1 generation removed from the apostles and were planted by the apostles?

The RCC's argument is that the apostles passed their teachings to the church fathers and that guarantees its fidelity ... and yet history demonstrates that within 40 years of their founding ... the churches in Revelation were being chastised by Christ for false doctrine of all kinds.

The RCC is the only religion that claims it has everything correct ... from the beginning ...

But the dirty little secret is that the early church fathers present no cogent theology. For every church father passage you select to bolster the RCC position ... there is another that repudiates it. And some of those fathers had heretical views.

Yes, they can be read to understand what people taught back then ... but they cannot be trusted as a source of theological and doctrinal truth.

I have noticed that the vast majority of these 'scholarly Protestants' who convert to Catholicism do so on the weight of the church fathers theology ... rather that solid exegesis of the Biblical text.

93 posted on 05/19/2015 6:37:26 AM PDT by dartuser
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To: dartuser

That false teachers would come in almost immediately?

In order to have a valid mass the Church deeded to have valid priests and bishops to continue the work of the apostles. Here Clement of Rome lays out exactly that no later than 100 AD. Do you suppose all of this just sprung into being in 99 AD or is he describing a Church that is well established and faithfully doing as the Lord instructed since His Ascension. Thus the Roman Church continued the work of the apostles. BTW, all of the quotes, notes and comments are from the protestant Christian Classics Ethereal Library. www.ccel.org

CLEMENT OF ROME

Introductory Note to the First Epistle of Clement to the Corinthians

[a.d. 30–100.] Clement was probably a Gentile and a Roman. He seems to have been at Philippi with St. Paul (a.d. 57)... A co-presbyter with Linus and Cletus, he succeeded them in the government of the Roman Church...Clement fell asleep, probably soon after he dispatched his letter. Few details are known about Clement’s life. According to Tertullian, Clement was consecrated by Saint Peter,[2] and he is known to have been a leading member of the church in Rome in the late 1st century. Early church lists place him as the second or third[1][3] bishop of Rome after Saint Peter...he was executed by being tied to an anchor and thrown into the sea.[1]

Chapter XLII.—The order of ministers in the Church.
The apostles have preached the Gospel to us from178 the Lord Jesus Christ; Jesus Christ [has done so] from179 God. Christ therefore was sent forth by God, and the apostles by Christ. Both these appointments,180 then, were made in an orderly way, according to the will of God. Having therefore received their orders, and being fully assured by the resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ, and established181 in the word of God, with full assurance of the Holy Ghost, they went forth proclaiming that the kingdom of God was at hand. And thus preaching through countries and cities, they appointed the first-fruits [of their labours], having first proved them by the Spirit,182 to be bishops and deacons of those who should afterwards believe. Nor was this any new thing, since indeed many ages before it was written concerning bishops and deacons. For thus saith the Scripture in a certain place, “I will appoint their bishops183 in righteousness, and their deacons184 in faith.”185

Chapter XLIII.—Moses of old stilled the contention which arose concerning the priestly dignity.

And what wonder is it if those in Christ who were entrusted with such a duty by God, appointed those [ministers] before mentioned, when the blessed Moses also, “a faithful servant in all his house,”186 noted down in the sacred books all the injunctions which were given him, and when the other prophets also followed him, bearing witness with one consent to the ordinances which he had appointed? For, when rivalry arose concerning the priesthood, and the tribes were contending among themselves as to which of them should be adorned with that glorious title, he commanded the twelve princes of the tribes to bring him their rods, each one being inscribed with the name187 of the tribe. And he took them and bound them [together], and sealed them with the rings of the princes of the tribes, and laid them up in the tabernacle of witness on the table of God. And having shut the doors of the tabernacle, he sealed the keys, as he had done the rods, and said to them, Men and brethren, the tribe whose rod shall blossom has God chosen to fulfil the office of the priesthood, and to minister unto Him. And when the morning was come, he assembled all Israel, six hundred thousand men, and showed the seals to the princes of the tribes, and opened the tabernacle of witness, and brought forth the rods. And the rod of Aaron was found not only to have blossomed, but to bear fruit upon it.188 What think ye, beloved? Did not Moses know beforehand that this would happen? Undoubtedly he knew; but he acted thus, that there might be no sedition in Israel, and that 17 the name of the true and only God might be glorified; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Chapter XLIV.—The ordinances of the apostles, that there might be no contention respecting the priestly office.

Our apostles also knew, through our Lord Jesus Christ, and there would be strife on account of the office189 of the episcopate. For this reason, therefore, inasmuch as they had obtained a perfect fore-knowledge of this, they appointed those [ministers] already mentioned, and afterwards gave instructions,190 that when these should fall asleep, other approved men should succeed them in their ministry. We are of opinion, therefore, that those appointed by them,191 or afterwards by other eminent men, with the consent of the whole Church, and who have blamelessly served the flock of Christ in a humble, peaceable, and disinterested spirit, and have for a long time possessed the good opinion of all, cannot be justly dismissed from the ministry. For our sin will not be small, if we eject from the episcopate192 those who have blamelessly and holily fulfilled its duties.193 Blessed are those presbyters who, having finished their course before now, have obtained a fruitful and perfect departure [from this world]; for they have no fear lest any one deprive them of the place now appointed them. But we see that ye have removed some men of excellent behaviour from the ministry, which they fulfilled blamelessly and with honour.

AMDG


110 posted on 05/19/2015 8:36:03 AM PDT by LurkingSince'98 (Ad Majoram Dei Gloriam = FOR THE GREATER GLORY OF GOD)
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To: dartuser
That by the time John wrote the letters to the churches* in Rev. that most were already in various stages of apostasy ...

*And we all KNOW that those were CATHOLIC churches; too!

162 posted on 05/19/2015 12:18:54 PM PDT by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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