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To: MeshugeMikey

the following was written in 99AD by Clement, who was ordained by Peter himself - he describing a Church that is well established and faithfully doing as the Lord instructed since His Ascension. Thus the Roman Church continued the work of the apostles. BTW, all of the quotes, notes and comments are from the protestant Christian Classics Ethereal Library. www.ccel.org

CLEMENT OF ROME

Introductory Note to the First Epistle of Clement to the Corinthians

[a.d. 30–100.] Clement was probably a Gentile and a Roman. He seems to have been at Philippi with St. Paul (a.d. 57)... A co-presbyter with Linus and Cletus, he succeeded them in the government of the Roman Church...Clement fell asleep, probably soon after he dispatched his letter. Few details are known about Clement’s life. According to Tertullian, Clement was consecrated by Saint Peter,[2] and he is known to have been a leading member of the church in Rome in the late 1st century. Early church lists place him as the second or third[1][3] bishop of Rome after Saint Peter...he was executed by being tied to an anchor and thrown into the sea.[1]

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.ii.ii.xlii.html

Chapter XLII.—The order of ministers in the Church.
The apostles have preached the Gospel to us from178 the Lord Jesus Christ; Jesus Christ [has done so] from179 God. Christ therefore was sent forth by God, and the apostles by Christ. Both these appointments,180 then, were made in an orderly way, according to the will of God. Having therefore received their orders, and being fully assured by the resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ, and established181 in the word of God, with full assurance of the Holy Ghost, they went forth proclaiming that the kingdom of God was at hand. And thus preaching through countries and cities, they appointed the first-fruits [of their labours], having first proved them by the Spirit,182 to be bishops and deacons of those who should afterwards believe. Nor was this any new thing, since indeed many ages before it was written concerning bishops and deacons. For thus saith the Scripture in a certain place, “I will appoint their bishops183 in righteousness, and their deacons184 in faith.”185
Chapter XLIII.—Moses of old stilled the contention which arose concerning the priestly dignity.

And what wonder is it if those in Christ who were entrusted with such a duty by God, appointed those [ministers] before mentioned, when the blessed Moses also, “a faithful servant in all his house,”186 noted down in the sacred books all the injunctions which were given him, and when the other prophets also followed him, bearing witness with one consent to the ordinances which he had appointed? For, when rivalry arose concerning the priesthood, and the tribes were contending among themselves as to which of them should be adorned with that glorious title, he commanded the twelve princes of the tribes to bring him their rods, each one being inscribed with the name187 of the tribe. And he took them and bound them [together], and sealed them with the rings of the princes of the tribes, and laid them up in the tabernacle of witness on the table of God. And having shut the doors of the tabernacle, he sealed the keys, as he had done the rods, and said to them, Men and brethren, the tribe whose rod shall blossom has God chosen to fulfil the office of the priesthood, and to minister unto Him. And when the morning was come, he assembled all Israel, six hundred thousand men, and showed the seals to the princes of the tribes, and opened the tabernacle of witness, and brought forth the rods. And the rod of Aaron was found not only to have blossomed, but to bear fruit upon it.188 What think ye, beloved? Did not Moses know beforehand that this would happen? Undoubtedly he knew; but he acted thus, that there might be no sedition in Israel, and that 17 the name of the true and only God might be glorified; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Chapter XLIV.—The ordinances of the apostles, that there might be no contention respecting the priestly office.

Our apostles also knew, through our Lord Jesus Christ, and there would be strife on account of the office189 of the episcopate. For this reason, therefore, inasmuch as they had obtained a perfect fore-knowledge of this, they appointed those [ministers] already mentioned, and afterwards gave instructions,190 that when these should fall asleep, other approved men should succeed them in their ministry. We are of opinion, therefore, that those appointed by them,191 or afterwards by other eminent men, with the consent of the whole Church, and who have blamelessly served the flock of Christ in a humble, peaceable, and disinterested spirit, and have for a long time possessed the good opinion of all, cannot be justly dismissed from the ministry. For our sin will not be small, if we eject from the episcopate192 those who have blamelessly and holily fulfilled its duties.193 Blessed are those presbyters who, having finished their course before now, have obtained a fruitful and perfect departure [from this world]; for they have no fear lest any one deprive them of the place now appointed them. But we see that ye have removed some men of excellent behaviour from the ministry, which they fulfilled blamelessly and with honour.

AMDG


24 posted on 05/18/2015 7:07:35 PM PDT by LurkingSince'98 (Ad Majoram Dei Gloriam = FOR THE GREATER GLORY OF GOD)
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To: LurkingSince'98

Great post.


66 posted on 05/18/2015 8:51:03 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: LurkingSince'98

If you listen to most evangelicals, their claim seems to be that the church got almost everything wrong from the time the last apostle died up until the anabaptists appeared. So for 1500 years almost everything was wrong until the more radical Reformers took Christ out of the Eucharist and turned baptism into a human work. This strains credibility.


86 posted on 05/18/2015 11:44:47 PM PDT by Wilhelm Tell (True or False? This is not a tag line.)
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To: LurkingSince'98; MeshugeMikey
Clement, who was ordained by Peter himself

A bold but disputed declaration.

St. Jerome tells us that in his time "most of the Latins" held that Clement was the immediate successor of the Apostle (Illustrious Men 15). St. Jerome himself in several other places follows this opinion, but here he correctly states that Clement was the fourth pope. The early evidence shows great variety. - http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04012c.htm

Few details are known about Clement's life... Clement's only genuine extant writing is his letter to the church at Corinth. (1 Clement)

The Liber Pontificalis [an "unofficial instrument of pontifical propaganda," of biographies of popes from Saint Peter until the 15th century] , which documents the reigns of popes, states that Clement had known Saint Peter. It also states that he wrote two letters (though the second letter, 2 Clement, is no longer ascribed to him) and that he died in Greece in the third year of Emperor Trajan's reign, or 101 AD. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Clement_I

And thus preaching through countries and cities, they appointed the first-fruits [of their labours], having first proved them by the Spirit,182 to be bishops and deacons of those who should afterwards believe. Nor was this any new thing, since indeed many ages before it was written concerning bishops and deacons.

Which is a Biblical practice, but what is not and missing here, is that of ordaining a separate sacerdotal class of believers distinctively titled "priests" (hierus) which the Holy Spirit never titles NT clergy, and which only pertains to Jewish and pagan priests, while all believers make up the only sacerdotal priesthood in the NT church.

Distinctively titling NT presbuteros/episkopos priests was a later development, due to imposed functional equivalence supposing NT presbyteros engaged in a unique sacrificial ministry as a primary function.

See here before engaging in the usual etymological fallacy and vain defense of the the Cath practice.

Chapter XLIV.—The ordinances of the apostles, that there might be no contention respecting the priestly office.

The title does not correspond to the letter, as nowhere do i see any ordained priests as in Catholicism. Instead, presbyters have replaced the separate class of priests, while all believers are the only priests and all are called to sacrifice.

Moreover, what is missing here, and as shown elsewhere, and which even Cath scholarship provides testimony against, is that of a monarchical episcopate, with all the church looking to Peter as the first of a line of infallible popes reigning in Rome.

Which is simply a RC fantasy, absent from Scripture despite RC extrapolative eisegesis.

116 posted on 05/19/2015 10:06:01 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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