Posted on 05/12/2015 4:21:27 PM PDT by RnMomof7
Let us begin with a church history exam question. Cardinal Robert Bellarmine (1542–1621) was a figure not to be taken lightly. He was Pope Clement VIII’s personal theologian and one of the most able figures in the Counter-Reformation movement within sixteenth-century Roman Catholicism. On one occasion, he wrote: “The greatest of all Protestant heresies is _______ .” Complete, explain, and discuss Bellarmine’s statement.
How would you answer? What is the greatest of all Protestant heresies? Perhaps justification by faith? Perhaps Scripture alone, or one of the other Reformation watchwords?
Those answers make logical sense. But none of them completes Bellarmine’s sentence. What he wrote was: “The greatest of all Protestant heresies is assurance.”
A moment’s reflection explains why. If justification is not by faith alone, in Christ alone, by grace alone — if faith needs to be completed by works; if Christ’s work is somehow repeated; if grace is not free and sovereign, then something always needs to be done, to be “added” for final justification to be ours. That is exactly the problem. If final justification is dependent on something we have to complete it is not possible to enjoy assurance of salvation. For then, theologically, final justification is contingent and uncertain, and it is impossible for anyone (apart from special revelation, Rome conceded) to be sure of salvation. But if Christ has done everything, if justification is by grace, without contributory works; it is received by faith’s empty hands — then assurance, even “full assurance” is possible for every believer.
No wonder Bellarmine thought full, free, unfettered grace was dangerous! No wonder the Reformers loved the letter to the Hebrews!
This is why, as the author of Hebrews pauses for breath at the climax of his exposition of Christ’s work (Heb. 10:18), he continues his argument with a Paul-like “therefore” (Heb. 10:19). He then urges us to “draw near … in full assurance of faith” (Heb. 10:22). We do not need to re-read the whole letter to see the logical power of his “therefore.” Christ is our High Priest; our hearts have been sprinkled clean from an evil conscience just as our bodies have been washed with pure water (v.22).
Christ has once-for-all become the sacrifice for our sins, and has been raised and vindicated in the power of an indestructible life as our representative priest. By faith in Him, we are as righteous before the throne of God as He is righteous. For we are justified in His righteousness, His justification alone is ours! And we can no more lose this justification than He can fall from heaven. Thus our justification does not need to be completed any more than does Christ’s!
With this in view, the author says, “by one offering He has perfected for all time those who come to God by him” (Heb. 10:14). The reason we can stand before God in full assurance is because we now experience our “hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and … bodies washed with pure water” (Heb. 10:22).
“Ah,” retorted Cardinal Bellarmine’s Rome, “teach this and those who believe it will live in license and antinomianism.” But listen instead to the logic of Hebrews. Enjoying this assurance leads to four things: First, an unwavering faithfulness to our confession of faith in Jesus Christ alone as our hope (v.23); second, a careful consideration of how we can encourage each other to “love and good works” (v.24); third, an ongoing communion with other Christians in worship and every aspect of our fellowship (v.25a); fourth, a life in which we exhort one another to keep looking to Christ and to be faithful to him, as the time of his return draws ever nearer (25b).
It is the good tree that produces good fruit, not the other way round. We are not saved by works; we are saved for works. In fact we are God’s workmanship at work (Eph. 2:9–10)! Thus, rather than lead to a life of moral and spiritual indifference, the once-for-all work of Jesus Christ and the full-assurance faith it produces, provides believers with the most powerful impetus to live for God’s glory and pleasure. Furthermore, this full assurance is rooted in the fact that God Himself has done all this for us. He has revealed His heart to us in Christ. The Father does not require the death of Christ to persuade Him to love us. Christ died because the Father loves us (John 3:16). He does not lurk behind His Son with sinister intent wishing He could do us ill — were it not for the sacrifice his Son had made! No, a thousand times no! — the Father Himself loves us in the love of the Son and the love of the Spirit.
Those who enjoy such assurance do not go to the saints or to Mary. Those who look only to Jesus need look nowhere else. In Him we enjoy full assurance of salvation. The greatest of all heresies? If heresy, let me enjoy this most blessed of “heresies”! For it is God’s own truth and grace!
And, yet, you continue to respond. I must not have proven that point very well.
CCC 841? Still no takers? That's okay. I realize it would be a difficult thing to confront (seriously -- CCC 841 pretty much equates the Mohammedan and Catholic faiths...)
Hoss
Looks like you've been swept up in the Ex Cathedra pronouncement.
Hoss
You are right.
(About something that doesn't really matter at all.)
You, sir, almost owed me a new laptop. Made me laugh out loud. Post of the day nominee for sure. :D
Hoss
Actually, the translation issue wasn’t really part of my question.
My question is, how do you respond to the concept that Paul’s suffering is somehow necessary to “fill up” something that is lacking? The question is the same even if what is lacking is the full impact of Christ’s suffering in Paul’s flesh.
Or to put my question a different way: what is Paul lacking, and how do his sufferings help fill up that lack?
Did you understand he is saying he (paul) needs to suffer more to be as filled with suffering as Christ was
Are you talking about yourself? Sure seems that way.
Yes. And I’m wondering what is the role of suffering in a theology of faith alone, where faith is understood as an act of the mind (or the mind and the heart) but not of the body.
Googling suffering and Martin Luther I found the following:
http://www.crownofcompassion.org/2014/01/06/martin-luther-on-suffering/
Martin Luther on suffering
January 6, 2014 by Dave Henning Leave a Comment
Timothy Keller discusses Martin Luther’s view of suffering in Chapter 2 (“The Victory of Christianity”) of Walking with God through Pain and Suffering. Pastor Keller states that for Luther, suffering played a dual role. Suffering must first empty us of our pride, leading us to find our true joy and sole security in Jesus. This joy and love, in turn, enables us to face and overcome suffering, as Luther once explained:
“It is God’s nature to make something out of nothing; hence one who is not yet nothing, out of him God cannot make anything, . . . therefore God accepts only the forsaken, cures only the sick, gives sight only to the blind, restores life only to the dead, sanctifies only the sinners, gives wisdom only to the unwise. In short, He has mercy only on those who are wretched.”
Yet Pastor Keller emphasizes that suffering does not automatically produce growth. We must first understand Christ’s suffering and work on our behalf. We cannot be “imitators of Christ”, exhibiting His love and patience under pressure, until we fully embrace Christ’s suffering for us. Patience will not earn us peace with Christ. Rather, we need Christ’s peace in order to be patient.
Another rhetorical question!
That one is a good product of the RC indoctrination, and has nothing for rebuttal! He is one of many! They rely solely on what their group forces them to believe upon threat of excommunication. IOW, Roman Catholicism is a cult!
See post 376
Hijacking the thread and distorting/redirecting what is discussed...
Look! Squirrel! (pay no attention to the man behind the curtain TRUTH!)
One trick pony
“The only thing you have proven is that responding to you (and other prots is a waste of my time.”
I bet the same is true with responding to mackerel snappers.
But surely, in between the two extremes, there must be someone who actually likes discourse and conversation that is meaningful???
Anyone?
Beuller??
I sleep well every night, resting in my faith in Jesus. He is the one in control, and all I can do is follow Him.
There is nothing to see in that post. It is a white flag of surrender...
Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by The Word of God. Regardless of the foolish fabrications of men added to faithing in Jesus, The Gospel believed is Salvation realized.
WONDERFUL PRODS!
“Following the Irish uprising in 1641 and subsequent Cromwellian invasion, the English Parliament passed the Act for the Settlement of Ireland 1652 which classified the Irish population into one of several categories according to their degree of involvement in the uprising and subsequent war. Those who had participated in the uprising or assisted the rebels in any way were sentenced to be hanged and to have their property confiscated. Other categories were sentenced to banishment with whole or partial confiscation of their estates. Whilst the majority of the resettlement took place within Ireland to the province of Connaught, Dr William Petty, Physician-General to Cromwell’s Army, estimated that as many as 100,000 Irish men, women and children were transported to the colonies in the West Indies and in North America as slaves.[19] During the early colonial period, The Scots and the English, along with other western European nations, dealt with their “Gypsy problem” by transporting them as slaves in large numbers to North America and the Caribbean. Cromwell shipped Romanichal Gypsies as slaves to the southern plantations and there is documentation of Gypsies being owned by former black slaves in Jamaica.[20]”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_British_Isles
How DARE you ask for PROOF from a Catholic!
Yes Hoss man. How dare your ask for proof? 😂😅 After all, are you you some kind of heretic or HATER? 😆😇
Point is mormons believe they have the right god, JW’S believe they have the right god..and romanists believe that the bread is their god.. what they believe does not matter.. that does not make it true or make it god..
Nope; no lying tongues found among Catholics...
Nope; no; it was the RACK that did it; not Catholic hands...
Nope; no wicked imaginations found among Catholics; al though them 3 Portuguese children could tell some tales!
Nope; no mischief found among Catholics; just BINGO...
Nope; no false witness found among Catholics; but some of their claims are a little bit; what shall we say; unbelieveable...
Nope; ABSOLUTELY no discord sowing is EVER found among Catholics...
Therefore...
It's all them damned Prots fault!
HATER😂😇
She moved like Harlow in Monte Carlo and showed em what she's got. 🙀😱
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