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To: Springfield Reformer
Not all who speak prophetically have stood before God in the sense of Isaiah or Moses.

Honestly, how would you know?

There is no record of David receiving a direct vision from or audience with God.

Right, there's no record. But then again there's no record of anyone peeing in the Bible either... You can disagree if you want, but I'm pretty sure they did...

God spoke to David through Nathan. Yet we have Psalm 22, a Davidic psalm that is a definite Messianic prophecy and confirmed to be such in the apostolic record.

If the prophesy was David's and not David quoting someone else, he would have had to have his own communication with God.

Also consider Caiaphas, the High Priest in Israel, who is confirmed to have spoken prophetically that Jesus would die for the nation. No divine vision there,

Because if they didn't write down every instance of it, it never happen, right?

There is a difference between someone, who through the Holy Ghost prophesies, and an actual prophet who relays the instructions of God to the people.

An actual prophet holds a special place in the hierarchy of God. Where much is given, much is expected. God gives them a vision or visitation in order to give them a higher knowledge and higher purpose. They need that in order to endure the hardships that come with their calling. Most of the prophets faced death at the hands of those they giving their message to.
606 posted on 05/12/2015 10:00:46 AM PDT by StormPrepper
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To: StormPrepper
But then again there's no record of anyone peeing in the Bible either...

1 Kings 16:11 Douay-Rheims Bible
And when he was king and sat upon his throne, he slew all the house of Baasa, and he left not one thereof to piss against a wall, and all his kinsfolks and friends.

617 posted on 05/12/2015 10:46:03 AM PDT by Elsie (I was here earlier!)
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To: StormPrepper
SR: There is no record of David receiving a direct vision from or audience with God.

SP; Right, there's no record. But then again there's no record of anyone peeing in the Bible either... You can disagree if you want, but I'm pretty sure they did...


In logic they call what you are doing an argument from ignorance.  No insult intended.  That's just what they call it.  We don't know that Isaiah didn't also run a brothel and a strip club.  So it must be true, right?  Well, you might say, that would be inconsistent with what we do know about him.  But according to you, what do we know about him?  Apparently the divine record concerning Isaiah, which was sufficient for Jesus and the apostles, is not good enough for you.  As for me, it's good enough, and I will go by the record, thank you very much (my Elvis impression right there. :) )

BTW, here's another great "argument from ignorance." Let's say I contend the Mother Ship, as big as Earth, is always hiding, on purpose, just the other side of the Sun.  Prove me wrong.  Can't prove me wrong?  Oh, then I must be right.  See what that does?  It's a sneaky way of shifting the burden of proof from me to you.  Rhetorically, you claim something is true, then you insist I prove the negative, which of course is impossible to do in this particular case.  

But that won't fly if the judge is paying attention.  The burden of proof is on you.  You made a positive claim that all prophets have this visionary experience, and it is your job to back up the claim from the evidence.  I have shown you clear examples of prophets where there is no record of such an experience. Imagining people might have done something is not evidence. You cannot support your claim from the evidence.  That's not my problem.  It's yours.  Sorry.

Peace,

SR
634 posted on 05/12/2015 11:52:17 AM PDT by Springfield Reformer (Winston Churchill: No Peace Till Victory!)
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