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The “thrust of my point” is exactly what I posted to you.

Then consider me a very dense student, who needs you to re-word and clarify... since I don't see your point as "self-evident"! (A few other forum members have gotten into the habit of posting a Bible verse and saying, "There it is!", as if that'll settle all question, and as if there's only one possible way to interpret that text; it really doesn't work that way for the majority of verses, as St. Peter makes clear [2 Peter 3:16-17].)

For example: I think it's crystal-clear that Baptism saves us (since St. Peter says, "Baptism, which corresponds to [being saved through the waters of the flood], now saves you"). Pretty clear and non-negotiable, to me... and easy to figure out, in language easy to understand. But the vast, vast majority of Protestant Evangelicals on this board disagree with that. Surely there's only one way to interpret that verse--i.e. to take it as God's Word, and plainly, self-evidently TRUE? Shouldn't we take that as the "thrust of St. Peter's point" (and the Holy Spirit's point)?

In other words: when dealing with people who believe differently from us, it's not unreasonable to re-word things (and not unreasonable for others to REQUEST that we do that); that's just part of the normal steps involved in having a discussion.

So: could you clarify your point, for me? WERE you saying that St. Paul was right, and the other writers were wrong?

If you would give me the scriptures you are using to support your views.

I have, innumerable times, on this thread alone (and on many others); if you type in "paladinan [topic in question] site:freerepublic.com", you'll probably get lots of hits. But do remember: "sola Scriptura" is a false (and unbiblical, and self-contradictory) tradition of men, and no reasonable person needs to follow it or be restricted by it.

But do remember: "sola Scriptura" is a false (and unbiblical, and self-contradictory) tradition of men, and no reasonable person needs to follow it or be restricted by it.

Acts 15

The Council at Jerusalem

¹ Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: “Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved.” ² This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question. ³ The church sent them on their way, and as they traveled through Phoenicia and Samaria, they told how the Gentiles had been converted. This news made all the believers very glad. ⁴ When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and elders, to whom they reported everything God had done through them.

⁵ Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”

⁶ The apostles and elders met to consider this question. ⁷ After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. ⁸ God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. ⁹ He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. ¹⁰ Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? ¹¹ No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

¹² The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. ¹³ When they finished, James spoke up. “Brothers,” he said, “listen to me. ¹⁴ Simon^[a] has described to us how God first intervened to choose a people for his name from the Gentiles. ¹⁵ The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:

¹⁶ “‘After this I will return
   and rebuild David’s fallen tent.
Its ruins I will rebuild,
   and I will restore it,
¹⁷ that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
   even all the Gentiles who bear my name,
says the Lord, who does these things’^[b]—
¹⁸ things known from long ago.^[c]

¹⁹ “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. ²⁰ Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. ²¹ For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”

The Council’s Letter to Gentile Believers

²² Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas (called Barsabbas) and Silas, men who were leaders among the believers. ²³ With them they sent the following letter:

The apostles and elders, your brothers,

To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia:

Greetings.

²⁴ We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. ²⁵ So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul— ²⁶ men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. ²⁷ Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. ²⁸ It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: ²⁹ You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.

Farewell.

³⁰ So the men were sent off and went down to Antioch, where they gathered the church together and delivered the letter. ³¹ The people read it and were glad for its encouraging message. ³² Judas and Silas, who themselves were prophets, said much to encourage and strengthen the believers. ³³ After spending some time there, they were sent off by the believers with the blessing of peace to return to those who had sent them. ^[34] ^[d] ³⁵ But Paul and Barnabas remained in Antioch, where they and many others taught and preached the word of the Lord.

Disagreement Between Paul and Barnabas

³⁶ Some time later Paul said to Barnabas, “Let us go back and visit the believers in all the towns where we preached the word of the Lord and see how they are doing.” ³⁷ Barnabas wanted to take John, also called Mark, with them, ³⁸ but Paul did not think it wise to take him, because he had deserted them in Pamphylia and had not continued with them in the work. ³⁹ They had such a sharp disagreement that they parted company. Barnabas took Mark and sailed for Cyprus, ⁴⁰ but Paul chose Silas and left, commended by the believers to the grace of the Lord. ⁴¹ He went through Syria and Cilicia, strengthening the churches.

But do remember: "sola Scriptura" is a false (and unbiblical, and self-contradictory) tradition of men, and no reasonable person needs to follow it or be restricted by it.

Micah 6:8

He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.

John 6:28-29
Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?

Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

1 John 3:21-23
Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him.
And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.

James 1:27

Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

The 3000 were saved prior to being baptized, Cornelius was saved prior to baptism, the Samaritans were saved prior to baptism, the Ethiopian eunuch was saved prior to baptism.

If you look at the process of salvation in the NT it follows along these lines:

Hear the word

Believe the word leading to repentance and receiving the Holy Spirit

Baptize

Do you really think that Peter, who was witness to the 3000, Cornelius and the Samaritans would all of a sudden say that "just baptizing", that is getting dunked with no change, no repentance, would save someone?

Noah and his family were saved because of their...wait for it...faith in God and His ability to deliever them.

Baptism is the expression of that faith in God and His ability to save you.

A person is believing a false narrative if they think just going under the water and getting wet is what saves them. Without faith and repentance, it just makes them a wet sinner.

If you are interested in your points and mine, I'll give you the first, most simple one to consider:

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone." (James 2:17).

The Holy Spirit, through James, said unequivocally that faith without works is dead. Agree?

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."(Eph.2:8,9)>

The Holy Spirit, through Paul, said unequivocally that salvation is by grace through faith and NOT of works. Agree?

So, was the Holy Spirit giving James false information. Or Paul? These two scriptures are diametrically opposed, yet they are both given by inspiration of the Holy Spirit and we KNOW the Holy Spirit is TRUTH, and cannot lie. So what gives?

They are both CORRECT. But how can that be? You'll find the same thing with baptism, grace, the law, the church, etc. And in all these areas Paul will be at odds with the authors of the other books you are comparing. And yet the Holy Spirit is working with BOTH of these men.