Posted on 04/22/2015 2:34:02 PM PDT by RnMomof7
Within Roman Catholicism (and within some other churches as well) there are prayers that are made for, through, and to the dead. We, as Reformed believers, reject all three of these categories but on different grounds. In discussing these issues with Roman Catholics it may be useful to be able to understand the different categories and to explain why it is that we reject each. We should pray for the living, to the living and true God, through the merits and intercession of Christ alone.
1. Prayers For the Dead
In Roman Catholicism, there is a belief in Purgatory. Although Roman Catholics give varying explanations, a popular perception is that purgatory is a place where, through a period of suffering, the soul is purged of sin (it's worth noting that some Roman Catholics today deny that Purgatory is either an actual place or that it has actual time, but we'll leave that for another discussion).
Those within Purgatory want to be purged of their sins (in Roman Catholic theology) but they also want to get out of there and on to heaven. So people are encouraged to pray for the souls of the deceased, for relief/escape from Purgatory. After all, apparently, this suffering can be alleviated through the granting of an indulgence to the person in purgatory.
The Bible, however, teaches that the souls of believers are, at their death made perfect in holiness and do immediately pass into glory. (See Thomas Watson's discussion, for a more detailed discussion.) Given this, prayers for dead believers are useless, since believers are already in heaven.
Furthermore, while certain folks have (from time to time) suggested that salvation is still possible in hell, it is not. Of course, this itself is not normally disputed by Roman Catholics, who recognize that there is no escape from hell itself. Thus, prayers for dead unbelievers are also useless, since unbelievers are already in hell, from which they cannot escape.
Thus, there is no third category - no third option that exists, where prayers for the deceased would have any value. Accordingly, we reject prayers for the dead as vain and superstitious, and we do not engage in such prayers.
2. Prayers To the Dead
In Roman Catholicism there are, from time to time, prayers to the dead. I would be quick to point out Mary, but this doctrine they have of the Assumption of Mary leaves it unclear whether they really consider Mary to be dead or resurrected (although, of course, as a matter of objective fact, she is dead and awaits the resurrection of the faithful). Aside from Mary, however, other saints are sometimes prayed to within Catholicism. One particularly popular saint in English-speaking countries is St. Jude (aka Judas not Iscariot, one of the twelve apostles), the patron saint of lost causes.
We, Reformed Christians, reject such prayers for several reasons. First, there is no reason at all to think that such prayers will be heard and understood by the dead. Second, not only does Scripture not encourage attempted communication with the dead, it condemns such attempts as witchcraft and necromancy. Third, the use of such prayers suggests a lack of faith in the efficacy of prayers directly to the Father. Fourth, the use of such prayers suggests a desire for the mediation of someone other than Christ, an issue that flows over into the next section, below.
This is one of those areas where Roman Catholic apologists are very eager these days to recast the issue in terms like "we're just asking our fellow believers to pray for us, are you saying that's wrong?" The answer to that question is that we do not object to asking fellow believers to pray for us. In fact, we ought to do so. James 5:16 Confess [your] faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
However, while many of the prayers to the dead are explicitly prayers that the dead would hear the person and pray to God for the person, that simply avoids the most grotesque abuses of the practice, such as when things are requested specifically from the saints or Mary, which are not theirs to give (such as success, grace, salvation, etc.). Those prayers (meta-prayers that request prayer by the saint to whom the prayers are offered) suffer from the objections as to the lack of warrant or example from the Scriptures as well as from the apparent view that these saints are to serve as mediators rather than Christ. As this is not a direct answer to the Romanist objections, I won't go on at greater length here.
3. Prayers Through the Dead
Roman Catholics sometimes explicitly, sometimes implicitly, offer up prayers that are through the dead. For example, the "Approved Prayer for the intercession of Pope John Paul II" (link) is a prayer that is not for John Paul II (JP2) or to JP2 but it is through JP2. It is addressed to God, "O Holy Trinity," but it requests that something be granted "Grant us," via the intercession of JP2 "through his intercession ... ."
Other times the request is more indirect. For example, sometimes when Mary (or others) are entreated it is suggested (as a justification) that since "the prayer of a righteous man availeth much" that the more righteous a person is, the more their prayer will avail (although, of course, the Scriptures do not teach such any such formula). Consequently, the idea is that we are asking these creatures to intercede before God on the basis of the merits that are theirs.
The connection between the two can be seen in this prayer to God pleading the merit and intercession of Rita of Cascia:
O God! who didst deign to confer on St. Rita for imitating Thee in love of her enemies, the favor of bearing her heart and brow the marks of Thy Love and Passion, grant we beseech Thee, that through her intercession and merit, we may, pierced by the thorns of compunction, ever contemplate the sufferings of Thy Passion, who livest and reignest forever and ever. Amen.(emphasis added - source)
(emphasis added - source)Prayer to Our Lady of Light
O radiant beam of celestial clarity,
O spotless Mother of infinite purity,
O seat of Wisdom and divine reliquary
of the Word Incarnate,
Hear my prayer,
O Queen of Light!
O Blessed Trinity,
Father, Son, and Holy Spirit,
You glorified my Mother, Mary,
as Queen of heaven and earth
and gave to her the gift of holding
Your Omnipotence in her holy hands,
Graciously grant what I seek
through her merits and intercession.
Amen.
956 The intercession of the saints. "Being more closely united to Christ, those who dwell in heaven fix the whole Church more firmly in holiness.... They do not cease to intercede with the Father for us, as they proffer the merits which they acquired on earth through the one mediator between God and men, Christ Jesus.... So by their fraternal concern is our weakness greatly helped."(emphases and elipses in original - footnote omitted - source)
I'll bet you are really unhappy with Christ using scripture to excoriate the Pharisees.
The person who has never experienced the new birth, the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit cannot comprehend the change that it works in a person.
“The person who has never experienced the new birth, the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit cannot comprehend the change that it works in a person.”
So true. This change is only brought about by “believing what you heard”, and no progress happens any other way. Sanguine (i.e. “seared”) unbelievers are often happier, nicer and live “better” lives than believers who are goaded into works for approval before God. Talk about misery! The result?
“Where then is that sense of blessing you had?”—Galatians 4:15
Gone! This board is littered with “works for approval”, the ultimate insult to God’s laborious witness, through history, that “by works of the law no one will be justified”. He made it crystal clear through Israel but the mind controlled by the sinful nature will not/cannot accept Truth. “Yet you refuse to come to me to be saved.” Dead works of religion are just as much of the flesh as sexual immorality.
Can you see where Protestants look at that belief and wonder if we could ever do enough or be good enough to pay for the offenses we commit to our Holy, Holy, Holy God?
All Adam and Eve did was eat an apple and they lost their promise .... we are a vile people that offend God daily, hourly ...with our thoughts and actions.. there is not enough penance or fire to clean our souls..
Amen
Thank you smvoice ... We know the gospel divides.. Jesus warned us of that ..BUT the gospel also calls those that are His.. This is the great commission
Jerome , that translated the Hebrew into Latin ...did not include the deuterocanonical books in the INSPIRED canon, they were placed in a separate section for "spiritual reading"
Until trent Rome did not have a closed canon ...
Actually Rome has only officially "spoken" on a handful of scriptures..so when your priest gives a sermon, or you read the work of an RC author, or attend a bible study..they are all just giving you their personal interpretation of what the scripture says... so actually yes we not only have the right , but the duty before God to know Him through His word
Thats because she loves you and fears for your eternity.
An inconvenient fact.
It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins.
Ecclesiastes 9
5 For the living know that they shall die, but the dead know nothing more, neither have they a reward any more: for the memory of them is forgotten.
6 Their love also, and their hatred, and their envy are all perished, neither have they any part in this world, and in the work that is done under the sun.
The above vers1s are also from the Douay Rheims and seems to disagree with the verses in Maccabees so I will just have to say I DON`T KNOW.
I prefer to think of us as those that were saved from Rome..:>)
I hate anything that is anti Christ..I hate false teachings that places men above Christ, I hate idolatry ... I love Catholics and understand the burden they carry..
How awful to never know if you have done enough, obeyed enough , prayed enough to get even into purgatory.. How sad to die and go to an unknown eternity
If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.(John 8:36)
Allow me to join you in affirming that reality. Whom God loves, he discipli9nes. We humans need to face our hypocrisies in order for God to wash them out of us. If He is not within us, we will not recognize those hypocrisies for same.
Selah!
The cross was Christ's purpose..His mission
Our cross is our call, our purpose ... as Christ's purpose was difficult and painful so might ours be.. but we are called to be faithful to the purpose for which we were called
Very welll said.
Nice post to read. In any type font.
Luther may have been forgiven officially but clearly not all Catholics have gotten the message.
Does that mean they are poorly catechized or sinning by holding a grudge or out of communion with the church for rebelling against its authority?
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