Attend, please, to two points:
First, the factual: “Popes do nothing about those that [rape]” -— is a misdirected calumny. You can’t name a Pope who did “nothing” about these vile sins; and the verifiable facts from insurers specializing in liability (LINK) show that such hell-bent offenses are -— sorrowfully -— prevalent other churches as well.
What does this prove? Sometimes that men in top pastoral positions are naive, not believing credible allegations; sometimes that there are shameful institutional cover-ups; very often that sex offenders themselves effectively hide their crimes like the sociopathic liars they are. And that’s in churches, schools, and youth programs across the board.
Second, the distinction between good doctrine and evil behavior. If the presence of gravely sinful men could discredit a faith group, then Christianity would have been discredited from the git-go -— by the presence of Judas among Jesus’ selected men. The sad reality is that our churches -— mine and yours -— are composed of sinners from top to bottom: we know that, and that’s why we need a Savior.
Trying to center this problem of “the pope” is a misdirection and, quite frankly, an unjust vilification.
“If I tell you that I abhor alcoholics but all my closest friends are drunks, it’s not too hard to figure out the truth of the matter...”
Perhaps you don’t realize that
(1) alcoholics are not to be “abhorred,” they are our brothers, sisters, parents, spouses, who are to be loved and helped. I deplore alcoholism. I detest drunkenness. And I love a fair number of alcoholics. Plus...
(2) A lot of alcoholics who haven’t had a drink for years, go regularly to AA and similar meetings, where their best friends are indeed alcoholics. That is not a case of moral contamination. Jesus was accused of being “a winebibber and a glutton” because he dined and drank with people so afflicted. I would like to think we can be friends with alcoholics and not be scorned for it by my fellow Christians.
“When we see your religion condemning praying to Mary and then a pope gets on his knees in front of millions of Catholics and thanks Mary for saving his life, we KNOW the real teaching of your religion regardless of what it says on paper...”
Again, misdirected. Catholics do NOT condemn praying to Mary (as you know!) -— we pray to (meaning, in Christ we are in living contact with) literally thousands of holy servants of God, saints and fellow-believers on this earth and saints in heaven, including the Holy Angels -— because we worship God along with them, and we mutually help each other by our constant prayers. This is called the Communion of Saints. We all pray for each other without exception, “so that there should be no division in the Body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other.” (1 Cor 12:25).
Second, the reverential gestures which you mentioned, are not the same as adoration. This has been explained in a reasonable way repeatedly on this forum.
http://freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3000325/posts?page=60#60
http://freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3000325/posts?page=61#61
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3228444/posts?page=70#70
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3000325/posts?page=39#39
Thanks for giving me the opportunity to explain this, iscool. I’m always glad to help.
I think this is the best for its elegance in simplicity. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3000325/posts?page=60#60
How many times must this be posted? How many times? 70X70? 700? Is this the lot of the self-chosen FRoman Catholic apologist? To constantly hear the mind-numbed regurgitation of “If you bow down to something, or someone, then that’s worship. Worship due to God alone. The Greek says so. Period.” (Such human automatons even ignore where bowing to a created being is sanctioned by God, Jesus Himself! Rev 3:9. But I digress in my rant)
It’s beyond my store of patience, which isn’t that great anyway. How many times? More than I can either count or tolerate.
Well then it's so little it's not worth mentioning...
(1) alcoholics are not to be “abhorred,” they are our brothers, sisters, parents, spouses, who are to be loved and helped. I deplore alcoholism. I detest drunkenness. And I love a fair number of alcoholics. Plus...
I didn't say I did...I said IF I did...And you know the issue wasn't alcoholics...
Just a lot of rhetoric
Again, misdirected. Catholics do NOT condemn praying to Mary (as you know!)
We know that's not true...You know that's not true...You were given a link to a thread where one of your very own claims Catholics do not pray to Mary...So that's the end of that conversation...
we pray to (meaning, in Christ we are in living contact with) literally thousands of holy servants of God, saints and fellow-believers on this earth and saints in heaven, including the Holy Angels -— because we worship God along with them
When we see and hear you guys praying to Saints and Mary to give you things only God can provide, we know you are worshiping regardless of how you spin it...