Hot or cold?
Sure I did. In post #341, I quoted ALL of 3 Nephi 19:26 -- or doesn't this Mormon know his Book of Mormon?
You claim to be responding to post #532, when I quoted 10 WHOLE verses from 3 Nephi 19 (verses 17-26); I guess we'll have to assume that you "jumped the gun" on your response to spread less-than-accurate gossip about me...not very becoming for a public Mormon ethical display, IMA.
Furthermore, you bash me for not citing ALL of 3 Nephi 19, yet on this post I'm responding to you ONLY cited verses 6 and 7...and the post #532 that I'm responding to of yours -- post #370 -- only cited 3 Nephi 6-8, 22.
So, we see you selectively edited prior to and after v. 22. (So that doesn't fit your defs of either "cherry-picking" or avoiding passages that "hurts your cause").
So, tell us, StormPrepper: Which is worse: Before this post, I cited 30% of 3 Nephi 19; You? 11%.
And, BTW, THAT's what truly hilarious here! Here we have me the Evangelical citing 11 whole verses of the Book of Mormon in two posts...and you the Mormon doing what comes across as cartwheels to avoid citing 10 of those BoM verses.
Utter irony! (But that's OK, StormPrepper...the last half of 3 Nephi 19 isn't a "boogie man" that's going to bite you...but it will cause you to question the theological integrity of your leaders who have instructed you while ignoring those passages)
3 Nephi shows that these people had great faith in Jesus. It also shows that He had great love and mercy for them. I suspect it was because they were simple people and Jesus had just taught them how to pray. They didn't get it right the first time, or maybe for the their level of understanding it was good enough at that time. Over time I'm sure they figured it out.
Oh, that figures. Jesus saw they were praying to the "wrong" god...and, Him, knowing it would be recorded forever in the "sacred" plates & eventual Book of Mormon, wanted to go on eternal record sanctioning them praying to the wrong god! No wonder He reinforced it by commending them for it in 3 Nephi 19:25:
24 And it came to pass that when Jesus had thus prayed unto the Father, he came unto his disciples, and behold, they did still continue, without ceasing, to pray unto him; and they did not multiply many words, for it was given unto them what they should pray, and they were filled with desire.
25 And it came to pass thatJesus blessed them as they did pray unto him; and his countenance did smile upon them, and the light of his countenance did shine upon them, and behold they were as white as the countenance and also the garments of Jesus; and behold the whiteness thereof did exceed all the whiteness, yea, even there could be nothing upon earth so white as the whiteness thereof.
(Yup...nothing like a "spiritual parent" figure doling out reinforcement for negative behavior that these days -- according to your post #333 -- gets people kicked out of God's very eternal presence)
Whatever the semantics are of calling upon Jesus when He's standing right in front of you is called...
(Well, on the one hand that's a little bit what I thought when we were discussing Stephen and Acts 7:59...I mean here ya got a man being stoned to death...and in perhaps the last utterance of his life...his spirit is leaving his body and calling upon Jesus when Jesus is -- any second now -- standing right in front of him...But, no, you would seemingly have NONE of it...So apparently you give the Nephite disciples kudos of linking praying/calling upon Jesus in His presence in supposed around 34 A.D. 3 Nephi 19:18...and for "praying unto Him" referenced five times in that chapter...but a few years later in Stephen's case, that was somehow a "no no"...such consistency...Wow!)
Secondly, so before (post #333) you were so convinced that this was a clearly enunciated absolute law, but now you seem to indicate something along the lines of ,'Well, some 'semantical' differences are allowed for figuring what is -- or isn't 'prayer.'"
Listen, FIVE times these disciples' communication in 3 Nephi 19 is labeled "prayer." The Nephite "prophet" here could have EASILY substituted the word "pray" with conversed, told, asked, addressed, communicated, expressed...and any HUNDREDS of words. But, nope. He chose "pray."
If this is some sudden Mormon-centric semantical "beef" with that word -- as if it's somehow "different" when Jesus is with the prayerer -- then, hey, take it up with Nephite or Joseph Smith who made it all up. (May I suggest you stop taking it out on me for simply pointing out all of these inconsistencies?).
Wrestle with the text. Wrestle with the "prophet." (Not me)
There is no contradiction. These people where talking directly to Jesus, who is also part of the God head, so Nephi described their talking directly with deity as a "prayer".
OK, suddenly you come to the end of your post...and it almost seems to me like -- just perhaps -- you realized how utterly weak these lame arguments are that you submitted in this post...so for the FIRST time...you try a DIFFERENT tact:
Jesus is part of the Godhead. Any prayers to him is a prayer to the Godhead. So they are praying to the Father.
OK...of EVERYTHING you've uttered on this thread, I have to be honest with you:
This comment ALONE makes you look like THE most inconsistent apologist I've seen in a while...because you can't even agree with yourself here!
Above, you just got done writing about these Nephite disciples:
"I suspect it was because they were simple people and Jesus had just taught them how to pray. They didn't get it right the first time, or maybe for the their level of understanding it was good enough at that time."
So FIRST you say they "didn't get it right"; Now "talking directly with a deity" apparently IS (right).
Which is it? Not right? Right? (Could you conference yourself & send us a "final" answer?)
Beyond that, Man! When a Mormon suddenly wants to get a wee bit "trinitarian" on you, well, hey, there's always that "fallback" retreat position of citing the Godhead! (Non-LDS: When Mormonism has to explain Biblical and Book of Mormon trinitarianism, the "Godhead" becomes a convenient pseudo-trinitarianism!)
But worse than that, sorry, it's not like we began discussing this topic in a generic topical manner. It was based upon an initial claim of yours in post #333 (below). You didn't add any "Godhead" or "Trinitarian" caveats to your statement below. It was a very black-and-white statement:
The laws of God are not arbitrary. Prayers are to God the Father in the name of Jesus only. So says Jesus Christ, whom will condemn you and cast you out at the last day for praying to anyone but His and our Father in Heaven.
So now I guess you gotta amend your statement to read: "Prayers are to God the Father OR to Jesus if he is acting as 'the godhead'...only."
I suspect a few weasel words runnin' round these threads...the clue was this seeming VERY late qualification you seemed to toss into this thread:
I do know that to defy the instructions of Jesus without repentance is to invite damnation.
Wow! Very slippery. (Kinda like nailing green jello to a tree!)
Nah; it's separating the wheat from the chaff.
Neat trick; since Jesus had not yet been clothed in flesh.
I'm sure you'll figure it out someday as well.
`Oliver Cowdery has confusion on what color shirt to wear, Joseph Smith goes to the Lord and the Lord’s will is revealed...
“My son Oliver, hearken and hear and behold what I the Lord God shall say unto you, I the Lord God would have you wear the blue shirt, yea even the bluest shirt, you are my son and blessed are you that believe...” ‘