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To: RnMomof7

Last I heard, heretical refers to those things which are a rejection of an essential truth of the faith. Nobody in the RCC claims the Rosary is essential... it is an extra (sacramental) that may or may not be done. Nobody thinks their personal salvation depends on it. Since it is not claimed to be essential, it cannot be heretical.

Any argument of whether or not it is in the Bible is irrelevant. It is a method of prayer, nothing more.

Nor is it idolatrous, since we are not depending on Mary to save us. It asks Mary to “pray for us”, which you should ask of everyone you know. Do you tell everyone you know “Don’t pray for me.. I will take care of it myself!”?

Much ado about nothing...


56 posted on 03/24/2015 9:26:57 AM PDT by Seraphicaviary (St. Michael is gearing up. The angels are on the ready line.)
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To: Seraphicaviary; Elsie
Nor is it idolatrous, since we are not depending on Mary to save us. It asks Mary to “pray for us”, which you should ask of everyone you know. Do you tell everyone you know “Don’t pray for me.. I will take care of it myself!”?

Bernadine: …all gifts, all virtues, and all graces are dispensed by the hands of Mary to whomsoever, when, and as she pleases. O Lady, since thou art the dispenser of all graces, and since the grace of salvation can ONLY come through thy hands, OUR SALVATION DEPENDS ON THEE.

Do you want to stand by your statement roman catholics don't depend on Mary for their salvation??

You know there are more statements from catholics just like this one.

70 posted on 03/24/2015 9:58:37 AM PDT by ealgeone
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To: Seraphicaviary
Last I heard, heretical refers to those things which are a rejection of an essential truth of the faith.

as proclaimed by the Church based in Rome.

77 posted on 03/24/2015 10:07:22 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Seraphicaviary
It asks Mary to “pray for us”, which you should ask of everyone you know.

Except that I don't ever ask DEAD people to pray for me.

78 posted on 03/24/2015 10:08:26 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Seraphicaviary
It asks Mary to “pray for us”, which you should ask of everyone you know. Do you tell everyone you know “Don’t pray for me.. I will take care of it myself!”?

A certain logical consistency would demand this response out of everyone who uses "one mediator" (1 Timothy 2:5) in such a way as to forbid intercession by people who aren't exactly Jesus (cf. 1 Timothy 2:1).

At least to my mind, a stronger objection would be the whole idea of "talking to dead people" or that requesting the prayers of those who have died does not enjoy the scriptural support that exists for requesting the prayers of those who are still living. (Yes, I'm aware of counter-arguments.) Even so, for some reason "one mediator!" seems to appear more often in my experience. And yet no one seems to use it to discourage (or interrupt) threads requesting prayer. If "one mediator" means what some people says, they should.

I see no difference, in terms of "one mediator," between asking the "living" for their prayers and asking the "dead" for their prayers. If asking the most famous Mary for prayers would betray some lack in trust in Jesus as the one mediator, then asking Mary Smith for prayers at the Wednesday evening prayer meeting would also betray some lack of trust in Jesus as the one mediator.

The same Paul who wrote "one mediator" prayed for others and asked others to pray for him in multiple letters (for example, Romans 15:30, Ephesians 6:19, Colossians 4:3, 1 Thessalonians 5:25, 2 Thessalonians 3:1). I see no indication that his position had changed between other writings and 1 Timothy (let alone between 1 Timothy 2:1 and 1 Timothy 2:5). Colossians 4:12 reads, "Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God." It does not read "Epaphras, who is one of you, is always labouring fervently for you in prayers, but he is a fool because there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."

Christ Jesus seemingly would have us pray for others who "despitefully use" us (Matthew 5:44, Luke 6:28) and didn't forbid us from praying for them because "there is one mediator."

117 posted on 03/24/2015 11:19:55 AM PDT by Lonely Bull
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To: Seraphicaviary
Nor is it idolatrous, since we are not depending on Mary to save us.

Not so fast.... according to your CCC and thus, your church teaches, Mary is a mediatrix... and the CCC refers to her as a "bringer of salvation":

"969 "This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation. . . . Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix.""

Curious how you square that with:

Christ himself states in John 14:6:

"Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

...and,

in 1 Timothy 2:5:

" 5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,"

So... how does this square? Seems to me the CCC is teaching something that goes directly against an essential of the faith: that no one comes to the Father except through Christ... and that there is ONE mediator between God and men... Christ; yet the CCC (and the church) teaches that Mary is a mediatrix... someone working with Christ to bring salvation and intercession.

Sounds heretical to me.

Somebody's got some 'splainin' to do.... Much ado about heresy.

Hoss

161 posted on 03/24/2015 1:12:10 PM PDT by HossB86 (Christ, and Him alone.)
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