Praying of the Rosary Is NOT Bible-Based Teaching

The Disciplers ^ | 2011 | Ptr. Vince

[Resettozero]

Jesus is God, incarnate. Mary is Jesus mother. Ergo, Mary is the Mother of God.

Nay nay.

In this instance, your logic fails you.

You could build an entire religion based upon the above false premise.

[Vermont Lt]

No, no, no...not MY premise. Just trying to explain why they would call her the MOG.

[Vermont Lt]

Did you read the rest of my post...why I don’t hinky it’s legit? No one can be the creator of the creator.

[Resettozero]

Stephen King’s latest and best, coming soon, The MOG!

[NoCmpromiz]

Official sites are sites supported by LDS officials unless said official sites are considered unofficial by said officials.

Wow..

That's really officially official..

[CynicalBear]

Snicker! Fergot du punciation did I?

[Resettozero]

Truly, I’m not all that swift, as others may willingly and speedily testify.

No, I missed your meaning both times. Thanks for the clarification.

Apology.

R2z

[af_vet_1981]

The Jewish Messiah has many Names and titles. One of His many Names is Immanuel (Emmanuel when Romanized). But This Person of Whom we speak went by the quite ordinary name Yeshua (Jesus, in the Greek).

Thus, one might say that Miriam/Mary is the mother of “Yeshua” or “Jesus”.

Hope this helps.

As I read the Hebrew, I notice the gender of the verb translated by KJV "and shall call" is feminine as in "and she will call his name" which is identical to the verb in Genesis where it is prophesied by the angel to Hagar that she will bear a son and call his name Ishmael. The point is that Isaiah makes it clear the virgin will call bear a son and call him "God with us." She is the mother of the name(s) she names him.

[Resettozero]

She is the mother of the name(s) she names him.

Agreed. So she and Joseph named him Yeshua (Jesus in the Greek). Joseph is the step-father (I suppose) of Yeshua. Mary is the mother of Yeshua. They both named Him Yeshua.

[af_vet_1981]

She is the mother of the name(s) she names him. Agreed. So she and Joseph named him Yeshua (Jesus in the Greek). Joseph is the step-father (I suppose) of Yeshua. Mary is the mother of Yeshua. They both named Him Yeshua.

And you must allow that she named him Imannuel/Emmanuel, else she would not be the young woman virgin in Isaiah and Matthew would be in serious error. Therefore, since Isaiah and Matthew are correct, Mary has to be the mother of Immanuel/Emmanuel which the Holy Spirit translated through Matthew as "God with us." Therefore, according to the scriptures, Mary is the mother of " God with us."

[Resettozero]

Nope.

Matthew Chapter 1 (KJV)

18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily.

20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,

23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:

25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

[Resettozero]

To finish the thought...

We indeed today call Him “God with us”!

Hallelujah and Amen!

[Old Yeller]

Matthew 6:7

But when you pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

[af_vet_1981]

Those last two posts were unclear due to the "Nope" and "To finish the thought" so I'll ask to make it clear.

Do you affirm or deny that Mary is the woman who fulfilled the prophecy in Isaiah to call (name) her son Immanuel ? If you affirm, then Mary is the mother of "God with us." If you deny, you deny her son.

[Resettozero]

Do you affirm or deny that Mary is the woman who fulfilled the prophecy in Isaiah to call (name) her son Immanuel ? If you affirm, then Mary is the mother of "God with us." If you deny, you deny her son.

That's tricky nonsense. It's an RC word entrapment game I do not have to play. Neither do you.

Take your inquisition elsewhere and away from me, okay?

[Colofornian]

I think it's a logic thing. Jesus is God incarnate. Mary is Jesus mother. Ergo, Mary is the Mother of God. [VermontLt]

Pinging others because of similar mentions...especially af_vet_1981, rwa265, NeoCaveman:

OK, my concern isn't actually so much Roman Catholic's specific label here of "Mother of God" -- as much as how it's used to appeal in a repetitious, indirect way that I believe tends to detract from approaching our Father directly thru His Son, and ultimately dilutes Jesus' glory.

So based upon what you say here, VermontLt, let's think this thru -- as you say -- "logically" ... by analogy.

You said:

Jesus is God incarnate.
Mary is Jesus mother.
Ergo, Mary is the Mother of God.

Let's apply this "logic" to the Holy Spirit, first taking into account two Biblical considerations:

1. The Holy Spirit is God incarnate within the flesh-and-blood temple of His people (see John 4:16-17; 1 Cor. 3:16-17; 6:19; 2 Cor. 6:16; Eph. 3:16; Eze. 36:26-27; 37:14).
2. Mary did not initiate being chosen by God, nor did she need to do anything (Luke 1:26-37) other than submit to bring our Lord into fleshly fruition (see her specific response in Luke 1:38: 38 “I am the Lord’s servant,” Mary answered. “May your word to me be fulfilled.”)

So, my extended analogy is:

a. The Holy Spirit is God incarnate within His Church [caveat: No single ONE of us constitutes that corporate temple]
b. Just as Mary simply relented in order to enflesh Jesus, we, too as His Body simply acquiese to "embody" the Holy Spirit
c. Then are we to "logically" conclude: Ergo, the Church is the Mother of the Holy Spirit!??? (Uh...this is where we tend to let us mere servants and sons get in the way of the Divine One)

16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. (John 14)
* 7 But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. (John 16)

Tell me: According to these two passages, Who is the One honored, venerated, lauded for being receivers of the Holy Spirit? The Church at-large? Or Jesus as Intercessor (John 14:16) and Sender (John 16:7) along with the Father as Giver (John 14:16)?

We as the Church are not to...
...assume any credit or glory for any Divine Presence or Divine Activity within and through our lives...
...As our Lord said: "So you also, when you have done everything you were told to do, should say, ‘We are unworthy servants; we have only done our duty.’” (Luke 17:10)
...I would say Mary's reaction in Luke 1:38 embodies this same humble servanthood

Mary is no more responsible or laudable or intercessory-worthy for embodying our Lord than the ensuing generational, worldwide Lord's Church as having embodied the Holy Spirit.

IoW, when we have prayer needs, by all means, enlist many mere fellow pilgrim-intercessors; the danger is when such enlistment borders on usurpation by ignoring the Ultimate Intercessor:

14 Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. 15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin. 16 Let us then approach God’s throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need. (Hebrews 4)

fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. (Hebrews 12:2)

[Colofornian]

Typo correction: A "1" is missing where bold-faced:

1. The Holy Spirit is God incarnate within the flesh-and-blood temple of His people (see John 14:16-17

[daniel1212]

Mary gave birth to a person who has has both natures, but she did not provide any of the Divine nature, so it is not required that she be a goddess in order to still be Mother of God.

But again, that ontologically oneness is what "mother of God" normally conveys, and is absent in Scripture. Even when stating that Christ come out of Israel, the Spirit is care-full to make the clarification that the flesh is referred to,

Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. (Romans 9:5)

You argue with God all you want that that clarification is not necessary, since Christ has a nature that is ontologically fully Divine and ontologically fully human, but He thought it important to add that clarification, while also making it clear that God had a body prepared for the Son to become incarnated in, and which came thru Mary as a pious instrument of God. And God does not say this blessing was because she was most holy, nor does it add the multitudinous titles and appellations Caths ascribe to her.

For the title "Mother of God" is not some mere technical term, but is part of the extreme exaltation of Mary which goes far beyond that which is written. For the Scriptures know nothing of ,

. praying to anyone in Heaven but the Lord, or were instructed to (i.e. "our Mother who art in Heaven") who were able to hear and respond to virtually unlimited prayers addressed to them (a uniquely Divine attribute in Scripture).

A women who never sinned (which claim is contrary to how the Spirit characteristically records even lesser exceptions to the norm among even lesser subjects), and was a perpetual virgin despite being married (contrary to the normal description of marriage, as in leaving and sexually cleaving), and who would be bodily assumed to Heaven, despite lacking testimony even from early tradition), and who is, exalted as (officially or with implicit sanction) as

• an almost almighty demigoddess to whom "Jesus owes His Precious Blood" to,

• whose [Mary] merits we are saved by,

• who "had to suffer, as He did, all the consequences of sin,"

• and was bodily assumed into Heaven, which is a fact (unsubstantiated in Scripture or even early Tradition) because the Roman church says it is, and "was elevated to a certain affinity with the Heavenly Father,"

• and whose power now "is all but unlimited,"

• for indeed she "seems to have the same power as God,"

• "surpassing in power all the angels and saints in Heaven,"

• so that "the Holy Spirit acts only by the Most Blessed Virgin, his Spouse."

• and that “sometimes salvation is quicker if we remember Mary's name then if we invoked the name of the Lord Jesus,"

• for indeed saints have "but one advocate," and that is Mary, who "alone art truly loving and solicitous for our salvation,"

• Moreover, "there is no grace which Mary cannot dispose of as her own, which is not given to her for this purpose,"

• and who has "authority over the angels and the blessed in heaven,"

• including "assigning to saints the thrones made vacant by the apostate angels,"

• whom the good angels "unceasingly call out to," greeting her "countless times each day with 'Hail, Mary,' while prostrating themselves before her, begging her as a favour to honour them with one of her requests,"

• and who (obviously) cannot "be honored to excess,"

• and who is (obviously) the glory of Catholic people, whose "honor and dignity surpass the whole of creation." Sources and more. But rather than promoting the role of a women as the mother of God, and using that misleading title, Scripture teaches that God had a body prepared for the Son to become incarnated in, the idea of a heavenly mother has a strong

[af_vet_1981]

That's tricky nonsense. It's an RC word entrapment game I do not have to play. Neither do you.

It is scripture and truth. I could not fail to answer the question to affirm that Mary fulfilled all the prophecy and is the mother of Immanuel, which the scripture interpreted making Mary the mother of " God with us."

Take your inquisition elsewhere and away from me, okay?

It is publicly obvious you declined to answer the question, so if you drop it, I will not ask you a second time.

[Resettozero]

Very well done. Now, I regret deliberately misspelling your username yesterday a little.