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To: ealgeone; RaceBannon; EagleOne
You can ask iscool to pray for you as they are a person here on earth and this would be in line with the examples we have in the NT;

Hold on. Unless you can show that the NT insists that "we must always limit ourselves to examples which are explicitly found in the NT", then this idea is dead in the water. "Sola Scriptura" is an unbiblical, self-contradictory, provably false tradition of men, and no one is obliged to follow it, much less use it as a "mandatory standard" when making arguments about the Faith.

but you do not pray TO iscool; just as we do not pray TO Mary.

See my previous comment, re: the original (and core) meaning of the word "pray" (i.e. "to ask"); the modern restriction of "pray" to "God alone" is a Protestant innovation, and it's--with all due respect--a thoughtless and self-serving one.

Neither of the last two would be examples found in the NT.

Really?
"Wherefore I pray you to take some meat: for this is for your health: for there shall not an hair fall from the head of any of you." (Acts 27:34, KJV)
The writers of the KJV, at least, knew the proper original meaning of the word. But why restrict yourself to the NT?
Say, I pray thee, thou art my sister: that it may be well with me for thy sake; (Genesis 12:13)

And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdmen and thy herdmen; for we be brethren. (Genesis 13:8--by the way, there's a reference of "brethren" not referring to "siblings", as an extra bonus!)
(etc.--there are over 50 occurrences of the specific phrase "I pray thee" in the KJV, alone)
165 posted on 03/24/2015 8:37:06 AM PDT by paladinan (Rule #1: There is a God. Rule #2: It isn't you.)
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To: paladinan; RaceBannon
Hold on. Unless you can show that the NT insists that "we must always limit ourselves to examples which are explicitly found in the NT", then this idea is dead in the water.

As far as any of your thinking goes, I refer back to this bit of "logic".

“Mary, for example, doesn’t need to handle “millions of prayers per second” (those are scare quotes, not direct quotes, BTW); she has all eternity in which to respond to them.”

If this is really the best you can come up with to defend praying to Mary, I dismiss the remainder of your speculations.

Regarding "pray thee", check out the wording in the Greek. Then you'll have your answer on this.

178 posted on 03/24/2015 9:16:08 AM PDT by ealgeone
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To: paladinan; Elsie
Hold on. Unless you can show that the NT insists that "we must always limit ourselves to examples which are explicitly found in the NT", then this idea is dead in the water.

Another example of why we measure all against the Bible.

Bernadine: …all gifts, all virtues, and all graces are dispensed by the hands of Mary to whomsoever, when, and as she pleases. O Lady, since thou art the dispenser of all graces, and since the grace of salvation can ONLY come through thy hands, OUR SALVATION DEPENDS ON THEE.

184 posted on 03/24/2015 9:25:23 AM PDT by ealgeone
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To: paladinan
(etc.--there are over 50 occurrences of the specific phrase "I pray thee" in the KJV, alone)

I just LOVE occurances!!!


 
 
 
Bernadine: …all gifts, all virtues, and all graces are dispensed by the hands of Mary to whomsoever, when, and as she pleases. O Lady, since thou art the dispenser of all graces, and since the grace of salvation can ONLY come through thy hands, OUR SALVATION DEPENDS ON THEE.

Bonaventure: …the gates of heaven will open to all who confide in the protection of Mary. Blessed are they who know thee, O Mother of God, for the knowledge of THEE is the high road to everlasting life, and the publication of thy virtues is the way of ETERNAL SALVATION . Give ear, O ye nations; and all you who desire heaven , serve, honor Mary, and certainly you will find ETERNAL LIFE.

Ephem: …devotion to the divine Mother…is the unlocking of the heavenly Jerusalem.

Blosius: To the, O Lady, are committed the KEYS and the treasures of the kingdom of Heaven.

Ambrose: …constantly pray ‘Open to us, O Mary, the gates of paradise, since thou hast its KEYS.

Fulgetius: …by Mary God descended from Heaven into the world, that by HER man might ascend from earth to Heaven.

Athanasius: …And, thou, O Lady, wast filled with grace, that thou mightiest be the way of our SALVATION and the means of ascent to the heavenly Kingdom.

Richard of Laurence: Mary, in fine, is the mistress of heaven; for there she commands as she wills, and ADMITS whom she wills.

Guerric: …he who serves Mary and for whom she intercedes, is as CERTAIN of heaven as if he were already there…and those who DO NOT serve Mary will NOT BE SAVED.

Anselm: It suffices, O Lady, that thou willest it, and our SALVATION is certain.

Antoninus: …souls protected by Mary, and on which she casts her eyes, are NECESSARILY JUSTIFIED AND SAVED.

191 posted on 03/24/2015 9:32:44 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: paladinan
See my previous comment, re: the original (and core) meaning of the word "pray" (i.e. "to ask"); the modern restriction of "pray" to "God alone" is a Protestant innovation, and it's--with all due respect--a thoughtless and self-serving one.

Mat_5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

προσεύχομαι
proseuchomai
pros-yoo'-khom-ahee
From G4314 and G2172; to pray to God, that is, supplicate, worship: - pray (X earnestly, for), make prayer

Do you make this stuff up as you go along or are you just repeating what your religion tells you to say???

247 posted on 03/24/2015 2:12:11 PM PDT by Iscool
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