Posted on 03/08/2015 10:34:58 AM PDT by RaceBannon
Very well, what about the marked path though the desert between oases? Or on the high seas in a small ship, depending on a sextant and compass to steer by.
Well, Peter was fallible, And the point that Irenaeus makes is The fidelity of the Roman Church to the apostolic tradition, and of its bishops as keepers of the keys. That admits the confusion of competing view in the 2nd Century. From the first, the Church haas been subject to “heresies,” of individual opinions that divide Christians. The search is for that doctrine that comes from the apostles and is the same everywhere. Rome acquired great prestige from its association with Peter and Paul, but it is the authority of Peter that matters more. But it is unnecessary to think of Peter as a kind of prelate, His charism is what is seen in the first half of Acts.
What about, "No one comes to the Father except through me" yet Roman Cultism teaches that Mary is somehow a mediatrix WITH Christ?
The only compass or sextant that anyone needs is found in scripture: Jesus Christ and him alone. Nothing else need be added.
Hoss
Kittle is translating Greek, not making policy.
Strong is an anti-Catholic bigot, does that make him better?
Continuing:
A simpler line of reasoning gets away from original languages and examines the immediate context of the passage. Notice, our Lord says to St. Peter in Matthew 16:17-19:
And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
Jesus uses the second person personal seven times in just three verses. The context is clearly one of Jesus communicating a unique authority to Peter.
Further, Jesus is portrayed as the builder of the Church, not the building. He said, “I will build my church.” Jesus is “the wise man who built his house upon the rock” (Matt. 7:24) in Matthew’s Gospel. Once again, it just does not fit the context to have Jesus building the Church upon himself. He’s building it upon Peter.
This is not an objective language translation.
This is a man with an agenda pretending language authority which is completely unsupported by any independent language analysis.
Continuing from the source:
“If St. Matthew wanted to distinguish “rocks” in the text, he would have most likely used lithos. As stated above, lithos could refer to a large rock, but it was more commonly used to denote a small stone. However, there is a third word St. Matthew could have used that always means small stone: psephos. It is used twice in Rev. 2:17 as “small stone” when Jesus says, “To him who conquers I will give some of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, with a new name written on the stone which no one knows except him who receives it.” Here we have one Greek word that unlike lithos and petra always has a connotation of “small stone,” or “pebble.””
Repeating:
Yet another incorrect source based on incorrect interpretation. Just remember: your "church" is claiming its "foundation" to be a fallen sinner Christ himself admonished as 'Satan' --
Yet, for being fallen, his statement of FAITH is the foundation of Christ's church... believers saved by grace through faith alone... as was Peter.
Say whatever you like -- The Roman Catholic Cult is and will always be a cult.
I cannot take seriously any so-called 'church' that teaches that Catholics and Mohammedans worship the same god... and since that's what your 'church' teaches, anything else that that comes from that sewer is just that... filthy lies.
Check your catechism. I'm not saying it to say it... it's what your church teaches and what faithful Catholics are supposed to believe.
So, keep telling me about how Peter is THE Rock and this verse 'proves' the Papacy.... and I'll continue to know the true 'source' of the lies that are parroted by, sadly, so very many.
Hoss
And the "sources" you quote do not have one?
Sheesh.
Hoss
Yeah right. They would never bring charges for simply "translating Greek" right?
"In 1945, after Hitler's Third Reich capitulated to the Allies, Kittel was arrested by the French occupying forces, removed from office and interned at Balingen. In 1946 Kittel was released pending his trial. He was forbidden to enter Tübingen until 1948, however. From 1946 to 1948 he was a Seelsorger (soul carer) in Beuron. In 1948 he was allowed back into Tübingen, but died that year before the criminal proceedings against him could be resumed." [Ericksen, "Theologian in the Third Reich", pp. 617-618]
He didn't even understand the Greek of the New Testament well enough to understand that the Jews were God's people. Appealing to someone who contributed to the Holocaust is unwise my friend.
Now you're second guessing what the Holy Spirit inspired the authors to write?
CCC 424 Moved by the grace of the Holy Spirit and drawn by the Father, we believe in Jesus and confess: ‘You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.’ On the rock of this faith confessed by St. Peter, Christ built his Church. “To preach. . . the unsearchable riches of Christ”
There are a couple of other mentions of Peter and rock in the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC)
CCC 552 Simon Peter holds the first place in the college of the Twelve; Jesus entrusted a unique mission to him. Through a revelation from the Father, Peter had confessed: “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Our Lord then declared to him: “You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it.” Christ, the “living stone,” thus assures his Church, built on Peter, of victory over the powers of death. Because of the faith he confessed Peter will remain the unshakeable rock of the Church. His mission will be to keep this faith from every lapse and to strengthen his brothers in it.
CCC 881 The Lord made Simon alone, whom he named Peter, the “rock” of his Church. He gave him the keys of his Church and instituted him shepherd of the whole flock. “The office of binding and loosing which was given to Peter was also assigned to the college of apostles united to its head.” This pastoral office of Peter and the other apostles belongs to the Church’s very foundation and is continued by the bishops under the primacy of the Pope.
Glad to see you agree.
You might like to think so but the ekklesia of Christ is not build on the shifting pebble of Peter. He denied Christ when it looked like he would be persecuted with Him and he had to be scolded by Paul when he feared being scoffed at by Jews. The ekklesia of Christ is build on the solid Rock of Christ Himself.
If it were not for double mindedness there would be no Catholic Church.
Because the Church represents Christ on earth. It is Christ’s Truth and He gave us a structure to worship Him. He gave us instructions and we follow Him not some guy who read the Bible one day and decides he knows better than Christ.
The Church is where we go to celebrate the life of Christ, to remember His sacrifice for our salvation.
I’m just going to state this as my opinion but growing up Protestant and attending many churches for funerals and weddings, they just fall short of the worship of God. They have some of the truth and I have no doubt that God will save anyone who says yes to Him but the whole truth is missing. The whole Glory of God, isn’t presented. It is the gospel of man convinced that they alone know the Word of God. It is watered down human-centered worship.
So why doesn't the Catholic Church? Leaders in the "church" are supposed to be married with children having proven their leadership abilities.
>>The Church is where we go to celebrate the life of Christ<<
"wherever two or three are gathered in my name there am I in the midst of them".
Leaders in the “church” are supposed to be married with children having proven their leadership abilities.
Please show me where it says in Scriptures that Jesus gave instructions that leaders in the church are supposed to be married with children.
1 Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; 3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; 4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; 5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
Surely you believe the Holy Spirit inspired the writing of scripture right?
200 posts of Christians bickering, fighting, belittling and insulting each other. Som Christian love. How depressing.
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