Posted on 03/05/2015 2:28:53 AM PST by RaceBannon
What, are you nuts??? I’m not going to search your catechism for your proof...
You already posted from your catechism that baptism is not necessary...If you have something to add to that, post it...
No, I am not nuts. You asked a question, and I provided a link for you to find an answer to that question.
You asked: “there is no requirement for water baptism...Why not say that to begin with???”
The Catechism states that Baptism is necessary for Salvation, then goes on to describe specific, limited circumstances under which Salvation is possible with receiving the sacrament of Baptism. Here are the chapters:
VI. The Necessity of Baptism
1257 The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation. He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them. Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament. The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are “reborn of water and the Spirit.” God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.
1258 The Church has always held the firm conviction that those who suffer death for the sake of the faith without having received Baptism are baptized by their death for and with Christ. This Baptism of blood, like the desire for Baptism, brings about the fruits of Baptism without being a sacrament.
1259 For catechumens who die before their Baptism, their explicit desire to receive it, together with repentance for their sins, and charity, assures them the salvation that they were not able to receive through the sacrament.
1260 “Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery.” Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity.
1261 As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus’ tenderness toward children which caused him to say: “Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,” allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church’s call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism.
But see, that's not what Paul says. Back up to post #47 and read what he says about our crucifixion with Christ.
It certainly is...You can't just cherry pick a verse out of the bunch (although you do) and build a doctrine on it...Read the rest of the chapter, and the one before it...
om 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
You have to know what that doctrine is to apply the verse you refer to...And it has nothing to do with water baptism...
Repentance is belief...
When does confession come? Before salvation or after?
After...
When does baptism come? Before your sins are washed away or after?
Spiritual baptism happens when you believe...Water baptism comes later...
I’ve seen and Heard lots of “how to be saved” sermons from Campbellite preachers.
Step one do this!
Step two do that!
Step three do this over here.
Step four do that over there!
and so on.
One thing is that the Campbellites are consistent, that is until you begin to split hairs over finer points of of what they think they believe!
And then they are not even sure they themselves are saved, but hope and pray they have done enough to earn their salvation.
I like a simple “Believe on thee Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved” to start.
Certainly not in the same sense Christians are saved...The water was able to float his boat...He was saved from drowning...It had nothing to do with the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus...
And it doesn't do anything else either, except get us wet...
They were saved for believing, not getting wet...
That’s not what Peter said. Who ya gonna believe?
And that baptism has nothing to do with water...
Act_11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
**Makes ya wonder why Ananias didn’t tell Saul, “And now why tarriest thou, arise and, um, well just get up that’s all.” **
Paul was already saved on the Damascus road. Check out the words of GOD about him. He speaks of Paul being a chosen vessel even though Paul had not been baptized yet.
ACTS9:
15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a CHOSEN VESSEL unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name’s sake.
The baptism was merely a formality of following the Lord in believer’s baptism.
By your way of thinking, here’s how the conversation should’ve gone:
Ananias: And now, why tarriest thou? Arise and be baptized and wash away your sins.
Saul: My sins were all washed away on the road here! What are you, a Campbellite?
Ananias: Oops, my bad.
Saul: Sheesh, all I wanted was a simple gospel.
No, he does not. He says the water is a symbol or antitype of what saves us.
1 Peter 3:21 also to which an antitype doth now save us -- baptism, (not a putting away of the filth of flesh, but the question of a good conscience in regard to God,) through the rising again of Jesus Christ,
When Jesus walked the earth, JOHN baptized people for the remission of sin.
Jesus’ disciples also did.
Jesus himself did something different. When someone came to him and asked for help his first words were often, “Thy sins are forgiven”!
This really offended the Pharisees as ONLY GOD could forgive sins. You really thing a little water will wash away sins unless the person has already made the change in their life?
I had a friend who went to a church that believed in baptism for remission of sins. Every few weeks he would go forward again to get re-baptized to remove the sins he had acquired since his last baptism.
And what is that antitype that saves us?
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