Posted on 02/24/2015 7:04:16 PM PST by redleghunter
And perhaps you would address mine in post 59.
Both have been done already.
Why must "church" refer to an invisible body, versus Godly people of God which are within the visible body progressively showing general consensus as to what and who is of God. Which the powers that be are to affirm, though it remains that what and who is of God are so regardless of magisterial rejection, as it can be wrong.
Or does being the instruments and stewards of Holy Writ mean they are the infallible judges of what and who is of God, and thus that they must be followed?
Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord.
Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another. Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous. Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you. We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him. Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
I thought so, but then again you never looked for the scriptures, did you?
I don't know why; but, isn't the concept of the invisible church widely held by much of the evangelical / Protestant confession? Do you reject the idea of an invisible church that is composed of actual Christians irrespective of their denominational identification?
versus Godly people of God which are within the visible body progressively showing general consensus as to what and who is of God.
This sounds like progressive revelation. Are you not a sola scriptura adherent?
It seems that you are saying that a visible church, over some years, reached a consensus about what would be accepted as Holy Scripture. Have I accurately understood?
I am not sure I am getting your point, but will keep trying.
Sorry, I am not buying it. I don't believe Moses, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Daniel and a host of others were catholic. You may think the RCC took all the books written by the Jewish writers and put it all together. I don't buy that either. You can believe whatever you like, but when Gabriel comes and blows his horn, then we will know for sure, won't we? I also do NOT believe anyone who disagrees with the RCC automaticly a hater. It appears to me, from reading these threads, that there might be some who DO think that way. BTW, I was never at NKP, though I knew some people who were. I was in Nam.
The oracles of God were committed to the Jews not to the Catholics.
The Catholic Church, i.e., CATHOLICS CHRISTIANS, came before the 4 Gospels of the NT. The Catholic Church, i.e., CATHOLIC CHRISTIANS, also determined what books of the OT would be canonized and allowed in the Holy Bible. You lose.
I lose??? Is that what this is to you? Scripture tells us that the oracles of God were entrusted to the Jews. I’ll leave you to explain how you think different to God.
Remember; he been taught this.
He is satisfied with his teacher.
He will NOT listen to any humans that say anything differently than his teachers.
Let the Holy Spirit work.
It won’t be US that awakens him in the night with doubts.
Break out a big old bowl of YOPIOS!
The Jews didn’t put the Bible that YOU READ together. The Catholic Church determined what BOOKS YOU READ in the Holy Bible and canonized those books. Not the Jews. Without the Catholic Church the Bible would not exist. It is a CATHOLIC DOCUMENT.Now you can argue till the cows come home but it’s historical fact. Go to any public library, look up the history of the Bible and see what it says about the Catholic Church. You can not not be that naive.
Of course they did. The Old Testament was entirely decided prior to Jesus being born. No part of the apocrypha was included. The apostles were Jews chosen by Jesus. Peter call Paul's writings scripture and the letters the apostles wrote amongst the assemblies of Christians. After John wrote Revelation it was complete.
>>Without the Catholic Church the Bible would not exist.<<
That doesn't exhibit much faith in God to preserve His word for all generations as He promised. I'll simply dismiss those types of comments as hubris and pride.
The Catholic Bible with books that tell you to burn fish hearts and walk through the smoke to ward off demons is enough to tell me the Catholic Church should be totally excused as any kind of authority.
And Rome copyrighted all that stuff; too!
Maybe THIS one will taste better than that darned Jonah fella!
Sure there were.
John the Baptist......
The Bible had been around for a thousand years or more.
With the accuracy of that claim, I don't think there's any reason to believe anything else Catholics tell us.
The Holy Spirit used the CATHOLIC CHURCH to give the world the Bible. Without that happening no protestant would have ever heard of Jesus Christ and his teachings.
Sure they would have because there was still SCRIPTURE, which the HOLY SPIRIT gave us.
Don’t the haters on here think it’s about time that credit it given where credit is due?
Yes, Catholics do need to learn that lesson and give the HOLY SPIRIT the credit HE is due for inspiring men to write Scripture, and it is chutzpah to the highest degree for Catholics to take the credit due to the HOLY SPIRIT and give it to the RCC.
I guess nobody in the Catholic church has read about Herod in Acts chapter 12.
It is absolutely ridiculous and childish the way some on here rant and rave the minute they hear the word Catholic.
It is absolutely ridiculous and childish the way some on here rant and rave the minute they hear the word Catholic. born again
It is absolutely ridiculous and childish the way some on here rant and rave the minute they hear the word Catholic. Scripture
It is absolutely ridiculous and childish the way some on here rant and rave the minute they hear the word Catholic. Protestant
It is absolutely ridiculous and childish the way some on here rant and rave the minute they hear the word Catholic. faith
I don't know what you mean by invisible? You mean without visible manifestation, as in a class of people called by a distinctive name which are identified as being so by what they overall basically believe and do (and do not do) - actions constituting the real evidence of that?
And which people claim historical faith based upon an objective transcendent body of Truth held to be wholly inspired of God, baptize and disciple people, and affirm the magisterial office or role of teachers, and ordain presbuteros/episkopos (elders/overseers as pastors) to preach and shepherd the flock?
And or do you mean that have a centralized magisterium and one standardized liturgy and claims formal historical descent, under the magisterial office which claims ensured veracity?
And which ordain hiereus (priests) who primary function is to offer the body and blood of Christ to the flock, which prays to angels and saints in Heaven, etc."
This sounds like progressive revelation. Are you not a sola scriptura adherent? It is actually progressive realization of revelation, while SS actually fully pertains to a 66 book canon, and is based upon the fact that the word of God/the Lord was normally written, even if sometimes first being spoken, and that as written, Scripture became the transcendent supreme standard for obedience and testing and establishing truth claims as the wholly Divinely inspired and assured, Word of God. As is abundantly evidenced
And which testifies (Lk. 24:27,44; Acts 17:2,11; 18:28; 28:23, etc.) to writings of God being recognized and established as being so (essentially due to their unique and enduring heavenly qualities and attestation), and thus they materially provide for a canon of Scripture (as well as for reason, the church, etc.)
It seems that you are saying that a visible church, over some years, reached a consensus about what would be accepted as Holy Scripture. Have I accurately understood?
Basically that the people of God, who are manifest in a body, did so. The question then is, must we then submit to that body in all like issues.
Lapsed Catholics. You were born a Catholic and when you leave this world you’ll still be a Catholic. When that day comes, I hope for the sake of your eternal soul you have reconciled and all this bitterness has been put behind.
I was not born a Catholic, I was born a fallen human being, and someone had me sprinkled in a Catholic church when I was a month old and didn’t have anything to say about it, and they called it baptism and claim that it made me Catholic.
The Catholic church has no authority over me unless I put myself under it’s control, which I do not.
I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God who loved me and gave Himself for me.
I’m born again, born from above and any and all marks on my soul have been erased. The Catholic church has no claim on it, no matter how often they say it. They don’t own me.
God does.
LIFE, TRUE life, eternal life IS grand.
I wouldn’t trade it for the bondage of any religion in the world ever again, no matter what that religion promised, because I know that nothing any religion in the world can compare to the freedom I have in Christ.
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