Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Salvation by grace alone through faith alone excludes works righteousness
Possessing the Treasure ^ | February 16, 2015 | Mike Ratliff

Posted on 02/19/2015 4:20:17 PM PST by RnMomof7

7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming for baptism, he said to them, “You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Therefore bear fruit in keeping with repentance; 9 and do not suppose that you can say to yourselves, ‘ We have Abraham for our father’; for I say to you that from these stones God is able to raise up children to Abraham. 10 The axe is already laid at the root of the trees; therefore every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 11 “As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. 12 His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clear His threshing floor; and He will gather His wheat into the barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.” (Matthew 3:7-12 NASB)

In the passage above John the Baptist was addressing a form of spiritual blindness that was afflicting the Pharisees and Sadducees. Is there the same sort of stubborn blindness pertaining to Christianity? Yes, sadly there is. Spiritual blindness is a darkness beyond our ability to describe. This blindness is rampant in the “visible Church” in our day. Jesus prophesied about this.

24 “ Strive to enter through the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25 Once the head of the house gets up and shuts the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock on the door, saying, ‘ Lord, open up to us! ’ then He will answer and say to you, ‘ I do not know where you are from. ’ 26 Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets’; 27 and He will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you are from; depart from ME, all you evildoers. ’ 28 In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but yourselves being thrown out. 29 And they will come from east and west and from north and south, and will recline at the table in the kingdom of God. 30 And behold, some are last who will be first and some are first who will be last.” (Luke 13:24-30 NASB)

Many who believe they are Christians are not. They have a form of righteousness, but it is not the righteousness born from above. It is self-righteousness. One group that contended with John the Baptist, Our Lord Jesus Christ and His disciples, was the Pharisees. Who hasn’t heard believers accusing other believers of being a Pharisee? These accusations are usually thrown at people who are stricter than the accuser in their judgments of saved and lost. The Liberal calls a person who judges on the basis of regeneration as the only evidence of saving faith as being a Pharisee. The mainstream church-goer calls all fundamentalists Pharisees. The antinomian calls those who preach Lordship salvation Pharisees.

Is this accurate? Are these examples of modern day Pharisees? Let us look in the Word for our answer.

Who were the Pharisees of the Bible? They were the religious conservatives within Judaism. They held very strictly to the Torah and the Talmud and were outwardly very moral. They were the leaders of the majority of the Jews and were very popular with the common people. They were revered by their followers for their religious zeal and dedication, and they were models worthy if imitation. Their main opposition were the Sadducees, the religious liberals within Judaism. They did not believe that the damned will be punished eternally in hell and that the saved will dwell eternally in heaven. The Sadducees were popular among the high-class minority.

The first mention of the Pharisees in the Bible is found in Matthew 3:7-12, which I placed at the top of this post. Here is is again.

7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming for baptism, he said to them, “You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Therefore bear fruit in keeping with repentance; 9 and do not suppose that you can say to yourselves, ‘ We have Abraham for our father’; for I say to you that from these stones God is able to raise up children to Abraham. 10 The axe is already laid at the root of the trees; therefore every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 11 “As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. 12 His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clear His threshing floor; and He will gather His wheat into the barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.” (Matthew 3:7-12 NASB)

Why would John the Baptist say that the Pharisees, who were outwardly moral, zealous, and religious, were the brood of vipers? Why would he say that they had not brought forth good fruit? Isn’t obedience to the law good fruit? Who was he to judge the hearts of these fine upstanding religious people? Wasn’t he being too harsh with them? Couldn’t he have toned it down a bit? Was “brood of vipers” really necessary? Isn’t that mean and unloving? How did he expect to gain an audience with such language? Didn’t he know that one catches more flies with honey than with vinegar? And what was he doing lumping them in with the Sadducces, who didn’t even believe in an afterlife?

John the Baptist was absolutely correct in his rebuke of the Pharisees. Both John and our Lord reserved their harshest words for these men as well. The reason Liberal Theology has so decimated the Church in our day is that most Christians have believed the lie that they must not speak up or confront other professing Christians. Why? They believe that it will reflect badly on Christ and the Church to have these contentions made public. However, John the Baptist and our Lord certainly didn’t refrain from telling the truth.

However, before Christians can emulate them, they must know the reason why the Pharisees were judged to be lost by our Lord and John. We cannot make these judgments based on any feelings about them. We cannot “discern” that they are lost. We must look at the evidence and judge them to be lost based on Biblical truth.

6 And Jesus said to them, “Watch out and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.” (Matthew 16:6 NASB)

The Greek words for watch is ορατε or horate the finite, plural, Present tense, Imperative mood, and Active voice case of ὁράω or horaō, which means “to discern clearly.” What were the disciples to beware of? The answer is found in Matthew 16:12.

12 Then they understood that He did not say to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees. (Matthew 16:12 NASB)

The Greek Word for teaching is διδαχή or didachē. It means instruction or doctrine. The disciples were warned by our Lord to beware of their doctrine. Their doctrine was the evidence that they were lost. Now I know that many believe the doctrine of the Pharisees to be correct, but their problem was their legalism. Those who say this often use this argument to call those who insist on correct Gospel doctrine Pharisees. However, our Lord’s words tell us that their problem was their doctrine not their legalism. They did not hold Orthodox doctrine. Instead, they held heterodox doctrine.

het·er·o·dox
-adjective
1. not in accordance with established or accepted doctrines or opinions, esp. in theology; unorthodox.
2. holding unorthodox doctrines or opinions.
[Origin: 1610–20; < Gk heteródoxos of another opinion, equiv. to hetero- hetero- + dóx(a) opinion (Compare dokeǐn to think, suppose) + -os adj. suffix]
—Related forms
het·er·o·dox·ly, adverb
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.

The Pharisees held unorthodox or heterodox doctrine. Jesus also tells us that they worshiped God in vain.

8 ‘ This people honors ME with their lips, But their heart is far away from ME. 9 ‘ But in vain do they worship ME, Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.'” (Matthew 15:8-9 NASB)

These men did worship and appeared to be very worshipful. However, since they held false doctrines they were lost and, therefore, their worship was in vain. Their doctrine was not of the Sacred Scripture, but was the doctrines of men. They emphasized tradition over Biblical commandments. (Matthew 15:6) They did not abide in the doctrine of Christ. (2 John 9) Since their doctrines were of men instead of the Sacred Scripture, they made their judgements on their vain imaginations. If you have ever participated in some “theological discussions” with emergents or liberals then you will recognize that one.

20 So then, you will know them by their fruits. (Matthew 7:20 NASB)

How can we know of what someone’s doctrine consists? Jesus said that we can know this by observing their fruit.

43 For there is no good tree which produces bad fruit, nor, on the other hand, a bad tree which produces good fruit. 44 For each tree is known by its own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they pick grapes from a briar bush. 45 The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth what is good; and the evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth what is evil; for his mouth speaks from that which fills his heart. (Luke 6:43-45 NASB)

I know that many have not grasped this truth, but our Lord is always right and He says that the fruit is what a person’s mouth speaks because the mouth speaks what is in the heart. Therefore, we can know what the Pharisee’s doctrine consisted of by observing their spoken words from the Bible.

9 And He also told this parable to some people who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and viewed others with contempt: (Luke 18:9 NASB)

This passage introduced Jesus’ parable about the tax collector and the Pharisee praying in the temple. He spoke it directly to the Pharisees. The Pharisees relied on themselves for their righteousness. This is self-rightetousness or works-righteousness. They believed that their good works merited them God’s favor. Their doctrine or theology was one of “Do” instead one of trusting in what God has “Done.”

2 For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge. 3 For not knowing about God’s righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. (Romans 10:2-3 NASB)

This description by the Apostle Paul is of all self-righteous Jews, not just the Pharisees. It is also a description of all self-righteous professing Christians who are depending upon their own works to save them instead of trusting in what God has done for them. Zeal for religion based in the knowledge of false doctrine is nothing but an abomination to God. According to this passage we see what the missing piece is in all “Pharisee’s” doctrine. What is it? They are ignorant of the necessity of submitting to God’s righteousness nor do they know anything of grace. Where can we learn of God’s righteousness?

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “ But the righteous man shall live by faith.” (Romans 1:16-17 NASB)

21 But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; 25 whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; 26 for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. (Romans 3:21-26 NASB)

People who are ignorant of God’s righteousness cannot submit to it. Therefore, they go about establishing a righteousness of their own. This is why we stress the Sovereignty of God so much here. This why I try to end each piece I write with either “SDG” or “Soli Deo Gloria.” This is why we must come to terms with God’s righteousness if we are ever going to grow in Christlikeness and become Spirit-filled. Only those who walk by faith are obedient in their submission to God’s righteousness for every deed done in the flesh is sin.

This is also why we must learn proper doctrine such as Salvation is by Grace through Faith. We are justified by faith alone, apart from works. Through this we learn that the righteousness which saves us is imputed to us. It is Christ’s righteousness, not our own. If we take this to heart we will not view our salvation as a correct decision, but instead, we see it for the miracle it is. This changes everything in how we serve Him. How can we be self-righteous if our salvation was entirely by Grace?

As many of you know, I grew up as a Southern Baptist. I was a Deacon in two SBC churches, one in Oklahoma and the other in Kansas. I was a Bible teacher as well. In 2004-2005 I underwent a theology overhaul by God. The end result of that was that my theology become subject to the Sovereignty of God. I finally came to understand that salvation is God’s work from beginning to end. Through this understanding I looked back at all those years in the SBC and it made me weep. Why? Much of the SBC culture is one of “Do” instead of being built around what God has “Done.” The emphasis is on “a changed life” instead of the Sovereignty of God.

I remember the countless Deacon meetings where it seemed that all we ever did was to strategize how to get the pew sitters busy. The evidence of salvation we looked for in people was how busy they were because of how God had impacted their lives. Of course, now I know that regeneration makes Christians New Creations who have a faith that is alive. This enables them to not sin if they walk by this faith. Instead of looking for this “change” we looked for how religious people were.

Phariseeism is the Religion of Do or Works-Righteousness. Christians in bondage to this will view their salvation in the context of a decision. They will attempt to live this out by being as religious as possible. Of course, unless they are regenerate and have the Holy Spirit, they will eventually stumble. Some will remain religious of course, but without the supernatural power of a regenerate heart, saving faith, and The Holy Spirit they will find their own righteousness instead of possessing Christ’s Righteousness. This is confusing sanctification with justification. Justification is a declaration by God of not-guilty on our behalf. Sanctification is the process whereby Christians are conformed unto the image of Christ as they abide in Christ. Those in the Religion of Works-Righteousness attempt to sanctify themselves by being religious. They believe their “works” merit them favor from God. It is no different than what the Pharisees did in Christ’s day.

Undoubtedly there are some genuine Christians enslaved to the Religion of Works-Righteousness. I was one. I pray that God will draw them out of it into the light. We must not condemn, but pray for and share the truth with them. It is not being Pharisaical to tell the truth.

Soli Deo Gloria!



TOPICS: Apologetics; Evangelical Christian; Mainline Protestant; Theology
KEYWORDS: lent; sacrifice; works
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 61-8081-100101-120121-132 last
To: LearsFool; CynicalBear; RnMomof7
The answer to both questions is F. But I'll bet you knew that already. Why you dodge that is another question altogether. In God's mercy, He accepted the Son's sacrifice on our behalf. Is that all there is to it? (Ak! Another question! But rather than wait for an answer, I'll press on.)

I don't know why you seem to think we owe you an answer to the questions you ask or imagine I don't know what the Bible teaches and you have to educate me. What this whole exercise has been about is what saves us, grace or works. If there had been a law that could make us righteous, then righteousness would have come by Moses' law, says Galatians 3 - and that was considered the epitome of law.

No one here has said "that's all there is" to living as a Christian. But to attain the righteousness required to be in heaven with God, who cannot look upon sin, we can ONLY turn to Christ, whose shed blood makes atonement for all our sins. It is AFTER we have been born again through faith that the Holy Spirit works in us to will to do those works Gods has created for us to do (Eph. 2:10). Are good works important for us to do in God's plan and purpose? Of course, I already said that multiple times. I don't know why you keep reverting to the idea that I've not acknowledged that.

Noah preached for 100 years and could only find 7 people with enough faith to join him on the ark. Did their faith save them? Yes. Did the ark save them? Yes. Did God save them? Yes. Did water save them? Yes. Did their getting in the ark save them? Yes.

Really? GOD saved those who had faith. Water didn't save them, they were saved FROM the water BY God's mercy and grace. Their getting into the ark was how they acted on their faith, it showed they had genuine faith. What makes you think I don't believe that?

The false teacher who wrote the OP's article would eliminate some of the things which saved Noah and his family. If he had been around back then, he wouldn't have gotten into the ark, let alone help build it. He doesn't have enough faith in God. Instead, he'd have spent his time trying to dissuade Noah's family from getting into the ark.

The author isn't teaching anything false, but for those who are counting on all the good works they do for God to save them, they probably HAVE to think he is. If you had been around back then, would you have gotten into the ark? Would you be boasting to your shipmates about how good you were to get on board or would you be thanking God for rescuing you from the judgment raining down? The boarding of the ark was an act of faith, but it was God USING the ark that saved them. Trusting in Jesus Christ is boarding the ark. It is what God requires to save us from the penalty of our sins.

The "false" gospel is coming from those who insist - in the face of ALL the Scripture to the contrary - that it is by their works they are justified. Sure, they slip in a little "faith" so as not to totally deny God's word, but it takes a distant second to their OWN works of righteousness. They have fallen from grace, Paul says, because works nullify grace. They are spewing lies from the pit of hell that deny the redemption which is in Christ alone. If Abraham - or us - are justified by our works, we would have something to boast about - but not before God. Don't be like those who at the judgment come before Christ saying , "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?", because Jesus will tell them, "I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS."

Our works do not save us. Only Jesus saves us by grace THROUGH faith and not by works, lest anyone should boast.

121 posted on 02/21/2015 8:19:56 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 118 | View Replies]

To: ScottfromNJ

By your interpretation, you have Peter changing his understanding of the events of Acts 10, when relating the events to the brethern in Jerusalem in Acts 11. I see no doctrinal differences, just a few more words.

Paul’s conversion is in Acts chapters 9, and the retelling of it in chapter 22. The story doesn’t have any doctrinal differences. It’s just told slightly different.

You have Peter, in Acts 10:47, SAYING: “Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost AS WELL AS WE.”

And you are convinced that Peter didn’t remember that that was the ‘baptism of the Holy Ghost’ until later. Simply because he tells the events with more detail?

Even verse 45 clobbers your theory. Let’s break it down::

“And they of the circumcision which believed (already had received Holy Ghost baptism) were ASTONISHED (why would that be?), as many as came with Peter, BECAUSE that on the Gentiles ALSO (see..they KNEW EXACTLY) was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.”

I have never seen anyone twist that story up, as much as whoever taught it to you that way.

**Act 1:5 -Luke 3:16 -Note there’s no mention and inclusion of water.**

That’s because Spirit baptism is the Lord’s job. HE required his apostles to perform water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, as his commissions collectively show (you can go back and look at them. I was a Calvinist for 28 yrs, and even they will tell you that Matt 28:19 is water baptism, commanded by the Lord).

**The passage really makes no mention of water.**

That response to Acts 2:38 shows that you don’t think Peter preached water baptism on that first day. So when did he pick up the nasty habit? Philip takes off, and is baptizing in the name of Jesus, in water; who corrupted him?

**Here Peter is actually refuting the need for water for salvation, and the passage read correctly with it’s reference to water is actually showing that it’s NOT water that saves.**

Wow, that’s like looking at a glass of water and saying, “That’s not water in that glass”.

**“not the putting away of the filth of the flesh but the answer of a good conscience toward God by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:”**

The good conscience is because of being buried with Jesus in baptism for the remission of sins, and BELIEVING it WORKS. You’re NOT taking a bath.

As I said, you would do well to look look these up (Matt. 28:19; Mark 16:16; Luke 24:47; and John 20:23), and compare them to each other, because they don’t contradict, and they are the Lord’s commands.


122 posted on 02/21/2015 10:25:15 PM PST by Zuriel (Acts 2:38,39....Do you believe it?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 106 | View Replies]

To: boatbums; LearsFool

**(Titus 3:4-8)**

Paul (born again person), writing to one of his converts, Titus (born again person).

The need to fully detail their Acts 2:38 pattern of conversion is not necessary in Paul’s letter to Titus. They’ve both already been to that rodeo.

**Abraham was NOT justified by faith after working, that is a mischaracterization of what Scripture says and is disproved by the passage cited above, as well as others.**

Then you had better move Genesis 15:6 back in front of 12:4, cuz Abraham was quite a faithful busy body for over three chapters, before God makes that 15:6 commendation.

Is it ok to have faith and breath, and breathing not be a ‘work’? (think about the hairsplitting that you are trying to do. Deal with something concrete: Acts 2:38, is it from heaven, or of men?)

Peace, and God bless


123 posted on 02/21/2015 10:52:01 PM PST by Zuriel (Acts 2:38,39....Do you believe it?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 107 | View Replies]

To: boatbums; LearsFool; RnMomof7

Well written! Without the faith nothing they do will gain them anything.


124 posted on 02/22/2015 4:43:09 AM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 121 | View Replies]

To: metmom; RnMomof7; boatbums

The Holy Spirit will guide us into all truth of Jesus lied when He said that.

Don’t you believe the words of Jesus?


Funny, the Presbyterian in my example will claim to be led by the Holy Spirit. as will the Baptist. the Mormons, Methodists, Jehovah Witnesses, Oneness Pentecostals, Lutherans, Anglicans, 7th Day Adventists and the Nazarenes also all claim to be led into truth by the Holy Spirit.

the truth is a person, Jesus Christ. the Holy Spirit is not the author of confusion, nor can He lead someone to believe something in the 1st century and then lead someone to believe the opposite in the 16th century. so unless you claim infallibility, you have no assurance you personally will be led to truth by the Holy Spirit.

so how does the Holy Spirit lead us to truth? the answer to that is the same now as it was in the year 50ad....thru The Church.
it is the Holy Spirit that raises up leaders in the Church, it is the Holy Spirit that guides and protects the Church.
it is the Church that Jesus gave authority to make disciples of all nations, baptizing them and TEACHING them.

no one in the Scriptures was ever instructed to read the Scriptures and decide for themselves what they mean.
in fact, quite the opposite. The Holy Spirit sent the Church to instruct the eunuch in Acts 8.

the basis for the truth the Church proclaims also is the same today as it was in 50ad, namely the teaching of the Apostles. this Apostolic teaching was not limited to only the written word, but also included the oral teaching of ALL the Apostles.

so when we look at the doctrine of infant baptism, we look to follow the practice of the Apostles. the Scriptures are not clear when they say whole families were baptized, if those families included infants or not. but we are 100% sure the Apostles baptized infants from the Apostolic Tradition followed by the Universal Church for 2,000 years.

if one is truly going to believe the words of Jesus, one would have to believe the Church would not/could not/did not go apostate in the 2nd, 3rd or 4th century and would never need to be re-established in the 16th century.

so if one reads the Scriptures and finds a doctrine that opposes what the Church teaches, you can be sure the Holy Spirit is not the one who led you into that belief. Again, not the author of confusion.
the Holy Spirit leads true believers into unity in the faith and though we are many and cover 2,000 years, Christians are one because we all share the same Eucharist.

as further proof the continuity of the true Church, I will leave you to ponder Ephesians 3:20-21

Now to him who by the power at work within us is able to do far more abundantly than all we ask or think, to him be GLORY IN THE CHURCH AND IN CHRIST JESUS TO ALL GENERATIONS, for ever and ever. Amen.

“all generations” includes the years 95ad thru the 16th century.


125 posted on 02/22/2015 1:26:52 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 75 | View Replies]

To: one Lord one faith one baptism

Differences in governance or preferences in governance do not equate to theological differences.

Why do Catholics demand lockstep interpretation of Scripture by non-Catholics and yet don’t demand it of themselves for either Scripture or the CCC?

The individual is led into truth by the Holy Spirit. If you don’t trust Him to do the job or think He’s capable of it, then you will never be led into it and you’ll be forever without it.


126 posted on 02/22/2015 2:40:41 PM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 125 | View Replies]

To: LearsFool

What makes you think people are not going in the water.

Perhaps some people see others giving water, a creation of God, more precedence that His shed Blood for the remission of sins.

Does baptism justify?


127 posted on 02/22/2015 3:40:23 PM PST by redleghunter (He expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning Himself. Lk24)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 94 | View Replies]

To: redleghunter
What makes you think people are not going in the water.

They say it's a "work", and they don't do "works" for forgiveness. You don't have to read far on FR to find that.

Even many of those who've been baptized say they were baptized AFTER the forgiveness of their sins. (Maybe they think Naaman dipped in the water AFTER his leprosy was cured? Maybe Noah was saved by water AFTER the flood was over?)

Doesn't it seem strange that even though the Bible says baptism is for forgiveness of sins, people don't believe it? It's as much for forgiveness of sins as the blood of Christ is.

Well, maybe it's not so strange. After all, Jesus said the preaching of the gospel would sort people into two categories: (1) those who would believe and be baptized, and (2) those who would not believe.

So the disciple's job is to preach the gospel to those who haven't heard it, and let the hearers decide whether they want to be saved or damned.
128 posted on 02/22/2015 4:39:03 PM PST by LearsFool ("Thou shouldst not have been old, till thou hadst been wise.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 127 | View Replies]

To: metmom

What Catholics demand means nothing.

Please read John 17 and see what the heart of Jesus demands, this I would think counts for something. The peace of the Church is important so the world ( unbelievers ) will know Jesus was sent from the Father.

Paul emphasizes the importance of this unity in Faith and the Eucharist in 1 Corinthians.

What prevents unity? The heart of man is desperately wicked and pride. Man wants to believe what seems right to them, and after they determine that, they use the Holy Spirit when in reality it was their own sinful mind.

The Scriptures tell us in latter days some will leave the faith ...........


129 posted on 02/22/2015 6:52:05 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 126 | View Replies]

To: LearsFool

Sounds like the water, a creation, is a miraculous element for you.

Perhaps getting in the water the answer of a good conscience toward God, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ?

Frankly IMO we should not be separating the works of Christ’s righteousness into some formula.

We know we are justified by faith and saved by God’s Grace. That the Blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sins.

We know whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

We also know that those in the NT and ages which followed who had faith/trust in the aforementioned got in the water to share in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

If a person administering water saves another person, then we should head to the prisons and saloons with fire hoses and get them wet.


130 posted on 02/22/2015 8:34:50 PM PST by redleghunter (He expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning Himself. Lk24)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 128 | View Replies]

To: redleghunter
No, water is not a miraculous element - no more for us than for Naaman. Just as water was the means God chose for cleansing Naaman's leprosy, it is the means He chose for cleansing our iniquities.

Why did He choose water instead of something else? Or why did He choose baptism instead of a shower or a splashing from a fire hose? He didn't tell us. (Though He does explain to us some aspects of baptism - as in Romans 6, for instance.) Rather, He simply commands, and we either believe and obey, or disbelieve (Mark 16:16).

Does this mean we're concocting some sort of "formula", as you put it? Well, was Elisha concocting some formula for Naaman? Let's look at that story again, and see if perhaps there are some similarities between our attitude and Naaman's:

Then Naaman went with his horses and chariot, and he stood at the door of Elisha’s house. And Elisha sent a messenger to him, saying, “Go and wash in the Jordan seven times, and your flesh shall be restored to you, and you shall be clean.”
But Naaman became furious, and went away and said, “Indeed, I said to myself, ‘He will surely come out to me, and stand and call on the name of the Lord his God, and wave his hand over the place, and heal the leprosy.’ Are not the Abanah and the Pharpar, the rivers of Damascus, better than all the waters of Israel? Could I not wash in them and be clean?” So he turned and went away in a rage.
And his servants came near and spoke to him, and said, “My father, if the prophet had told you to do something great, would you not have done it? How much more then, when he says to you, ‘Wash, and be clean’?”
- II Kings 5:9-13

What if Naaman had gone to Damascus and dipped seven times in the Abanah or the Pharpar? Would his leprosy have been cured?

What if he had dipped four times in the Jordan instead of seven?

What if he'd had his servants splash him seven times with buckets of water from the Jordan?

And finally, what if a leper today dips seven times in the Jordan?
131 posted on 02/23/2015 3:53:58 AM PST by LearsFool ("Thou shouldst not have been old, till thou hadst been wise.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 130 | View Replies]

To: LearsFool

I agree. Faith in action. Good references.


132 posted on 02/23/2015 6:42:41 AM PST by redleghunter (He expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning Himself. Lk24)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 131 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 61-8081-100101-120121-132 last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson