Posted on 02/10/2015 8:55:01 AM PST by RnMomof7
On my personal blog, and through e-mail, I sometimes get reader requests for posts. People often have interesting questions about a wide variety of issues, and I do what I can to try to tackle reader questions when I can. One of my relatives sent me a question a little over a year ago, and seeing that I had the same question boiling around in my mind many years ago (before I figured it out), I’m thought I’d tackle it and clear up what is a somewhat common question.
The question has to do with whether or not Jesus went to Hell after the cross and why the Apostle’s Creed reads that Christ “descended into hell” (descendit ad inferna). The problem is confounded in that not only does the phrase appear in the Apostles Creed, but it also is arguably insinuated in Acts 2:25-31, Romans 10:6-7, Ephesians 4:7-10, 1 Peter 3:18-20 and 1 Peter 4:6 (though due to time I won’t tackle the biblical texts but rather leave that to people who have already done a far superior job to my possible offerings).[1] So how do we unpack this idea and figure out what is going on in the Apostles’ Creed?
Well, let’s start with the Apostles Creed itself. The Apostles Creed is unlike the Nicene Creed or the Chalcedonian Definition in that it wasn’t a creed written by a church council but rather a summary statement of belief that evolved from a Roman Baptismal formula in the 2nd century and was expanded and edited for roughly 5 centuries. The phrase “descended into hell” didn’t become a standard element of the Apostle’s Creed until at least the mid 7th century.[2] The first recorded occurrence of the phrase “descended into hell” appears in the version of the creed used in the church in Aquileia that is commented upon by Rufinus in his Commentary on the Apostle’s Creed (written around 404 AD). A digital and searchable copy of Rufinus’ work is here and he writes on the phrase “descended into hell”, saying:
Those who have handed down the Creed to us have most carefully specified the time at which these things were done, namely, ” under Pontius Pilate,” so that the tradition of these things should never in any respect vary, as though being vague or uncertain. Yet it should be known that the Creed of the Roman Church does not include the words ” He descended into Hell,” nor is this clause found in the Churches of the East. The meaning of the phrase, however seems to be the same as that of the words “He was buried.” (page 26)
So, even in Rufinus’ day there were multiple versions of the creed, some of which did not include the phrase, and even when it was included the phrase “descended into hell” was understood to refer to the grave. One reason for this would be that in the Old Testament, the place of the dead was called by the Hebrew term “She’ol”, which had a wide semantic range that included the place of post-mortem suffering, the place of post-mortem blessing, and the grave itself. In the day of Rufinus, She’ol was translated into Latin as inferna.[3] The person reading the Latin Old Testament (known as the Vulgate) would regularly see inferna used as the term referring the both the place in which the bodies of the dead were placed, as well as the place to which dead people went, and it would have been a relatively common term in the Latin Old Testament (She’ol occurs 65 times in the Hebrew Old Testament).
So, I’ll cut the Apostle’s Creed discussion short here since, well, that essentially answers the question. Now admittedly there’s lots of scholarly ink spilled here on which Early Church Fathers thought that Christ descended into Hell itself, whether or not they thought of inferna as “the grave” or something else, and what Christ did while in the inferna. This whole debate is interesting, but I’d suggest that the weight of the evidence clearly lies in favor of the understanding of Rufinus; that Christ’s descending into hell simply is another way of restating that he actually, physically died (and consequently was actually, physically resurrected).
In lieu of my rather long posts in my responses to Dr. Michael Brown’s book Authentic Fire, I thought I’d shift gears and toss something short and sweet up for you all!
You’re welcome!
[1] These passages are all thoroughly dealt with by Wayne Grudem and he convincingly argues the conclusion that the idea of Christ’s descent into Hell is nowhere to be found in the scripture. Wayne Grudem, “He Did Not Descend Into Hell: A Plea for Following Scripture instead of the Apostles Creed”, Journal of the Evangelical Theological Society, 34 no. 1 (March 1991), 103-113. Also, for a comprehensive take on 1 Peter 3:18-20 (the main text that people appeal to for biblical support on this question), one should pick up William Kelly’s book Preaching to the Spirits in Prison, which goes through all 22 competing interpretations of 1 Peter 3:18-20 and gives the passage an exhaustive treatment.
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>> “A true born again believer has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and those “laws” are no longer external demands but internal desires.” <<
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So, then, you now desire to keep his feasts?
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Believers know that Galatians 4:9 has nothing to do with Yehova’s feasts, but Satan's.
The abysmally lost believe as you say you do.
Months, seasons and years is Sun god worship. Days like christmas and easter are a big part of that.
As Peter said,
[14] Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
[15] And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
[16] As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the scriptures, unto their own destruction.
So Paul was talking about Christmas and Easter ey? And of course woman doesn't mean woman. /snicker
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Paul was talking about the days that Constantine made christmas and easter out of.
Actually he didn’t have to make easter, it had been followed exactly the same for over 2000 years before Constantine just called it “christian.”
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Very little of Revelations is literal. It’s largely a poetic book, with deeper meanings behind each statement. A thousand years in Revelations only represents a long time period, it isn’t a literal thousand years.
It’s near complete and total agreement that Christ went to Heaven upon his death on the cross, just as he told the thief. I didn’t say everyone agreed but the overwhelming majority do.
I read the article a couple days before that comment and had forgotten that Rufinius was a scholar. I thought you were referring to someone on FR who was posting comments. My mistake.
Christ spent 3 days and nights in the center of the earth.
In the center of the earth existed Paradise and Torment where a wide gulf separated them. Of course Jesus did not go to the hell side, he likely preached to the saints in Paradise and explained to them that he is Jehovah and he has defeated sin.
When God resurrected his Son, Paradise was removed from the center of the earth and is now in Heaven where the Saints await their new bodies.
Where are you getting any of that from?
You thought you would tackle it? On what authority? Why is your opinion superior to say, St. Thomas Aquinas?
or how about the bible itself? Catholics take these literally when supporting the creed.
He decended into hell:
Ephesians 4:9
Acts 2:24
1 Peter 3:19
Hosea 13:14
Zech 9:11
Colossians 2:15
Psalm 23:7
Ecclesiaticus 24:45
As usual, protestants are the one who interpret the bible less literally. For Catholics:
John 6:55 literal, not symbol or metaphor
Luke 1:28 - Mary is literally full of grace - not symbol or metaphor
baptism is literally required for salvation
Acts: 2:38 - 39 and others
it is extremely interesting to find out that it is actually Catholics who interpret the bible literally, including on this issue that Christ did descend into hell, because we take the scriptures on the topic to be literally true
The thread above is also proof that when you part from the Catholic Church’s teachings, anything and everything can be questioned.
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Only to a trivial reader is Revelation anything but literal.
The meanings are clear, and way too deep for the unbeliever for sure. Confronting the soon end to the ways and governments of Satan’s men is untenable for those whose thoughts and understanding are based in men.
The Revelation is a clearly laid out map of the final 2000 years of Satan’s rule of the Earth.
You’ll only understand it if you quit running away from it.
Nothing God has told us therein is in any vague, so there is no point in seeking comfort in that falsehood. It wasn’t meant to be a comforting story; it is reality closing in on those that reject God’s ways.
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That statement id total comic book.
No one can enter the realm of the Father until the day when all of the elect receive their spiritual body as they meet him in the cloud, at the Last Trump.
Why do you disbelieve what Paul told us?
1Corinthians 15:
[41] There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
[42] So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
[43] It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
[44] It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
[45] And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
[46] Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
[47] The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
[48] As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
[49] And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
[50] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
[51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
[54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
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>> “The thread above is also proof that when you part from the Catholic Church’s teachings, anything and everything can be questioned.” <<
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This thread and just about every other RF thread is proof that when one leaves Yehova’s Teaching, and turns to the catholic church’s babblings of and worship of men, one is in danger of eternity in Hell.
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Revelation 8:3 Another angel, who had a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was given much incense to offer, with the prayers of all God's people, on the golden altar in front of the throne.
Revelation 6:9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10 They called out in a loud voice, "How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?"
Isn't that something!!! The altar is before the throne in heaven and there are souls under that altar that do not yet have their glorified bodies. His statement is "comic book" ey? And you accuse him of not believing what Paul wrote??? Here's the deal.
They were in heaven and talking to God not yet in their glorified bodies!!!!
It's in scripture.
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Isn’t that amazing!
You conveniently miss the word “under.”
More comic book Eisegisis!
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John 3:13 “And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.”
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Matthew 5:29 If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell (Gehenna.
Greek - Gehenna - 1067 géenna (a transliteration of the Hebrew term, Gêhinnōm, "the valley of Hinnom") – Gehenna, i.e. hell (also referred to as the "lake of fire" in Revelation). [http://biblehub.com/greek/1067.htm]
Ephesians 4:9 "the lower regions of the earth"
No hell there.
Acts 2:24 But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him.
No hell there.
1 Peter 3:19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits--
No hell there.
Hosea 13:14 "I will deliver this people from the power of the grave (sheol; I will redeem them from death. Where, O death, are your plagues? Where, O grave, is your destruction? "I will have no compassion,
Hebrew - sheol - underworld (place to which people descend at death)
No hell there.
Colossians 2:15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.
No hell there.
Psalm 23:7 Not found in scripture.
Ecclesiaticus 24:45 I will penetrate to all the lower parts of the earth, and will behold all that sleep, and will enlighten all that hope in the Lord.
No hell there.
Perhaps you have a passage that says that Jesus descended into hell (Gehenna the lake of fire) that you have forgotten? What you have listed surely does NOT say He did.
>>As usual, protestants are the one who interpret the bible less literally.<<
Matthew 5:29 If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away.
Do Catholics gouge their eyes out if they look with lust at a woman or envy because they saw something they want? Jesus said it.
Luke 14:26 "If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters--yes, even their own life--such a person cannot be my disciple.
Do you hate your father and mother and brothers and sister, your wife and childred and even your own life? Do you teach that people need to hate also? Or are you not a disciple of Jesus? Jesus said it.
After all, it is the Catholics that want to take scripture literally right? Or is it "as usual" that Catholics just pick and choose?
>>it is extremely interesting to find out that it is actually Catholics who interpret the bible literally, including on this issue that Christ did descend into hell, because we take the scriptures on the topic to be literally true<<
Yes it is interesting. Leteral rivers of water flowing from your belly, gouged out eyes and cut off hands, literally eating the paper the words are writtne on, and hating everyone around them so they can be a disciple of Christ. What a bunce!!!
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