Posted on 02/10/2015 8:55:01 AM PST by RnMomof7
On my personal blog, and through e-mail, I sometimes get reader requests for posts. People often have interesting questions about a wide variety of issues, and I do what I can to try to tackle reader questions when I can. One of my relatives sent me a question a little over a year ago, and seeing that I had the same question boiling around in my mind many years ago (before I figured it out), I’m thought I’d tackle it and clear up what is a somewhat common question.
The question has to do with whether or not Jesus went to Hell after the cross and why the Apostle’s Creed reads that Christ “descended into hell” (descendit ad inferna). The problem is confounded in that not only does the phrase appear in the Apostles Creed, but it also is arguably insinuated in Acts 2:25-31, Romans 10:6-7, Ephesians 4:7-10, 1 Peter 3:18-20 and 1 Peter 4:6 (though due to time I won’t tackle the biblical texts but rather leave that to people who have already done a far superior job to my possible offerings).[1] So how do we unpack this idea and figure out what is going on in the Apostles’ Creed?
Well, let’s start with the Apostles Creed itself. The Apostles Creed is unlike the Nicene Creed or the Chalcedonian Definition in that it wasn’t a creed written by a church council but rather a summary statement of belief that evolved from a Roman Baptismal formula in the 2nd century and was expanded and edited for roughly 5 centuries. The phrase “descended into hell” didn’t become a standard element of the Apostle’s Creed until at least the mid 7th century.[2] The first recorded occurrence of the phrase “descended into hell” appears in the version of the creed used in the church in Aquileia that is commented upon by Rufinus in his Commentary on the Apostle’s Creed (written around 404 AD). A digital and searchable copy of Rufinus’ work is here and he writes on the phrase “descended into hell”, saying:
Those who have handed down the Creed to us have most carefully specified the time at which these things were done, namely, ” under Pontius Pilate,” so that the tradition of these things should never in any respect vary, as though being vague or uncertain. Yet it should be known that the Creed of the Roman Church does not include the words ” He descended into Hell,” nor is this clause found in the Churches of the East. The meaning of the phrase, however seems to be the same as that of the words “He was buried.” (page 26)
So, even in Rufinus’ day there were multiple versions of the creed, some of which did not include the phrase, and even when it was included the phrase “descended into hell” was understood to refer to the grave. One reason for this would be that in the Old Testament, the place of the dead was called by the Hebrew term “She’ol”, which had a wide semantic range that included the place of post-mortem suffering, the place of post-mortem blessing, and the grave itself. In the day of Rufinus, She’ol was translated into Latin as inferna.[3] The person reading the Latin Old Testament (known as the Vulgate) would regularly see inferna used as the term referring the both the place in which the bodies of the dead were placed, as well as the place to which dead people went, and it would have been a relatively common term in the Latin Old Testament (She’ol occurs 65 times in the Hebrew Old Testament).
So, I’ll cut the Apostle’s Creed discussion short here since, well, that essentially answers the question. Now admittedly there’s lots of scholarly ink spilled here on which Early Church Fathers thought that Christ descended into Hell itself, whether or not they thought of inferna as “the grave” or something else, and what Christ did while in the inferna. This whole debate is interesting, but I’d suggest that the weight of the evidence clearly lies in favor of the understanding of Rufinus; that Christ’s descending into hell simply is another way of restating that he actually, physically died (and consequently was actually, physically resurrected).
In lieu of my rather long posts in my responses to Dr. Michael Brown’s book Authentic Fire, I thought I’d shift gears and toss something short and sweet up for you all!
You’re welcome!
[1] These passages are all thoroughly dealt with by Wayne Grudem and he convincingly argues the conclusion that the idea of Christ’s descent into Hell is nowhere to be found in the scripture. Wayne Grudem, “He Did Not Descend Into Hell: A Plea for Following Scripture instead of the Apostles Creed”, Journal of the Evangelical Theological Society, 34 no. 1 (March 1991), 103-113. Also, for a comprehensive take on 1 Peter 3:18-20 (the main text that people appeal to for biblical support on this question), one should pick up William Kelly’s book Preaching to the Spirits in Prison, which goes through all 22 competing interpretations of 1 Peter 3:18-20 and gives the passage an exhaustive treatment.
You do not understand what death is about, and what the Bible has to say about death, the separation of soul, spirit and bopdy. Sorry that you do not know what awaits you. Rufinius is not your best source of infotmation on this.
I don’t know who Rufinius is. I believe scripture is quite clear in the separation between soul and body, separated upon bodily death and ultimately reunited at the end of time.
Scripture is difficult enough to piece together without coming up with wild theories and otherwise piecing together completely unrelated passages and topics.
Not when New Jersey is just next door...
Define "hell". He did NOT descend into "hell" if by that you mean a fiery place of torment. Christ said to the thief that He would be with that day in paradise. Paul wrote that He had to descend "to the lower, earthly regions". The word used in the New Testament for that is Hades and is the same place the rich man was and Lazarus and Abraham as we see.
Ephesians 4:9 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.
Hades is described as the "unseen place" or the invisible realm where all the dead reside. We can only surmise that Hades has two levels, a torment level and a paradise level, since the rich man "looked up" and saw Abraham in that "unseen place". Christ went to that "paradise" level of the "unseen world" not "hell" as in a place of torment. Christ's days of torment were over. In no way did He have to suffer the torment of those who are unforgiven as the rich man was.
>>The civil law remains.<<
I don't think that means what you think it means.
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From God’s word.
The millennial reign has not yet begun, thus we have at least 1000 years until his Torah (the teaching of righteousness) is complete.
The feasts are the appointed times upon which his specific steps to that end must occur.
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Why is it that Christ’s true followers, when He walked the earth, knew exactly what happened after death, but yet you don’t?
The original Apostles knew and explained it in detail to members of Christ’s Church. They all knew the truth in great detail.
The message they gave was clear; here’s the truth, no need for debate. And it was all necessary knowledge. None of it was trivia. This was information His followers needed to prepare them for the eternities.
But you don’t have even 1000th of the knowledge they had. So, if you’re the “true” body of Christ, why is God treating you different?
Because not only has God not given you any additional knowledge, not in 2000 years...he’s taken away almost all that He originally gave.
I mean God spoke to His prophets and Apostles face to face and gave them great details. The prophets and Apostles went out and relayed that information to the people of Christ’s Church. They probably had lengthy lectures on the subjects.... There was no debate among Christ’s true Church when they were taught the truths of the eternities.
Soooo... why isn’t He making sure you’re treated the same as His other followers?
I find all of your acceptance of this condition to be...curious.
Matt 15:
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
Let them a lone. Which God has done to these man made churches. They worship Him in vain.
Those are the words of Christ Himself.
Remember His warning of what He’s going to do at the judgement:
Luke13:
26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
Christ’s own words. All these people that believe on Jesus, but He’s going to cast them out at the Judgement. Those are His words.
*Sigh
What do you imagine the term “civil law” means?
The 1,000 years isn’t literal, we’re in the middle of it now.
What I meant by my comment is that the “civil law” most refer to is an external law. A person can follow those “laws” all they want to but will do them no good as far as salvation is concerned. A true born again believer has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and those “laws” are no longer external demands but internal desires.
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The thousand years is like almost everything in the Revelation, very literal.
If this were Yeshua’s millennial reign, Yeshua would have to be Satan’s brother, just like the mormons say.
The 1000 years will begin at the end of Daniel’s 70th week, at the end of Satan’s tribulation, and everyone on Earth will know exactly when, because when he comes in the cloud with his angels to gather his elect it will be seen by every person left on Earth.
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First sentence is “on my personal blog”....
Nobody cares about your blog, blog pimp
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Your projection of your own ignorance and darkness on everyone has to be a wish for company.
Matthew 15 speaks to the Pharisees, not to the elect.
The warning in Matthew 7 and Luke 13 is for the “workers of Iniquity,” i.e. those that have rejected his Torah.
When God spoke to his prophets, he “sealed” their messages until the times that they applied.
When he spoke to John, he told him that what he was revealing would begin to unfold soon, not to seal it, but gave recognizable signs whereby we can observe where we are in that long pageant.
It is now easy to see that we are near the end of the 5th seal, with “interesting times” coming soon.
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No not "perfect agreement " ..The majority of Protestants understand that Jesus went to Paradise just as He said ..
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The thread was not posted by the author.
Wake up!
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I will ignore your rudeness and address the subject.
“The warning in Matthew 7 and Luke 13 is for the “workers of Iniquity,” i.e. those that have rejected his Torah.”
Christ is talking about :
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
1. The time is the judgement.
2. The people He’s referring to are those that claim to believe that He is God. Believers. They call him Lord.
3. Their crime is following a false gospel. They followed the commandments of men. False churches. And taught others their false gospel.
4. They were deceived by the world so much so that they are confused as to why Christ is rejecting them.
5. They didn’t follow God’s true commandments.
6. And when they are brought to that moment of truth, they tried to talk their way out of it. But, God doesn’t mince words, He commands them to begone.
Luke 13 and Matt 7 are not separate warnings but part of the same.
Christ never says anything about murderers or adulterers arguing with Him at the judgement.
=> Only those that think they are supposed to be in His Fathers kingdom. They are the only ones shocked at the judgement and try to argue with Christ. <=
“It is now easy to see that we are near the end of the 5th seal, with “interesting times” coming soon.”
6th seal.
I was assuming you read the article before generating this answer, but apparently you haven't. Rufinius is mentioned in the third, fourth, and fifth paragraphs of this article. You might want to read that before further resisting Scriptural truths that are as yet above your knowledge base.
I believe scripture is quite clear in the separation between soul and body, separated upon bodily death and ultimately reunited at the end of time.
The Gospels are quite clear that Jesus' spirit was placed into the hands of The Father, that His body was placed in the new grave tomb of Joseph of Arimethea, and that Jesus soul went to Paradise, otherwise known as Abraham's bosom, together with that of the malefactor to whom He promised fellowship that very day.
If you can grasp this, you know more than the person who wrote the article.
Scripture is difficult enough to piece together without coming up with wild theories and otherwise piecing together completely unrelated passages and topics.
I admit, I supplied very little guidance as to how to interpret the diagram of the dispostion of souls at different historical times. But the purpose was to show a substantial difference between the Bible account of Christ's death and that of the author of the article.
With a little luck, study, wise counsel, and foresight you can avoid giving opinions like this that have no basis.
But thanks for your attention. I hope this will give you an encouragement to do your own research on the disposition of a person's components at death, as well as (for some) a second death.
Here is the source of a carefully prepared paper on the topic:
The Mystery of the Pit (click here)
Read it through, and you'll be wiser than your pastor.
That's an excellent way to make this point. I'll remember it. Thanks!
-— She’ol was translated into Latin as inferna. -—
And then, “hell.” It’s simply a bad translation.
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Obviously, but they are not believers!
They are workers of iniquity. That simply means that they violate his Torah.
To be a believer in the sense that the apostles meant one has to believe and fully accept his every word and deed, and live their life as he lived his.
That is what a true disciple does.
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P.S.
Was pointing out your rudeness rude?
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