Posted on 02/08/2015 5:56:52 AM PST by infool7
I have been meaning to write this up for months, as it is a regular question that lands in the ol’ inbox. It is on people’s minds, both inside and outside the Church, especially with the imbecilic, contra-educated words and deeds coming out of the Bishop of Rome in these dark, dark days. It is time to explain this clearly and forthrightly, because it is actually one of the truths that was most persuasive and attractive in my conversion process. Why? Because the explanation is logical, coherent, and satisfyingly beautiful.
This statement is TRUE:
There is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church.
The reason why almost everyone in post-Christian western culture today blanches at this is because we have been taught to deny that there is, in fact, any such thing as “truth”. ONE TRUTH. We have been savagely propagandized and manipulated to accept that 2+2 equals 4, AND 7, and 8,349,085 – if that is what someone else wants. Because there is “my truth” and “your truth” and “we each have our own truth”, and “life is a journey of discovering our own truth”. The infiltrators have not only torn down the entire notion of truth via soft, cultural means, but also through the hardest of the hard sciences – MATHEMATICS. Were you taught logic at any point within the context of mathematics? Do you know what a “truth table” is? If you are under the age of 45, almost certainly not. Logic is the use and study of valid reasoning, that is, truth and falsity. Thus, it was totally scrubbed from math curricula in the western world by the infiltrators by necessity, because logic is the hammer that instantly smashes the vast majority of the staggering, staggering bullshit that we are all, as we speak, drowning in. The reason why even functionally intelligent people today simply cannot parse current events and get their heads around what should be extremely simple-to-grasp dynamics is because people have been conditioned to view as normal – if not virtuous – the simultaneous holding of utterly contradictory positions.
So, there is exactly, precisely ONE TRUTH, and thus, there must be by mathematical definition, be exactly, precisely ONE CHURCH. There CANNOT be multiple “churches”, which, by definition, hold contradictory positions (hence their distinctiveness one from another), because two contradictory things CANNOT BOTH BE TRUE. And we know that there is a CHURCH, because Our Lord Himself in the Gospels made repeated mention of it, not the least of which was this hard-to-get-around statement:
“Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I WILL BUILD MY CHURCH.”
So we know, just from that, that Our Lord does have, in fact, a Church, and that He has ONE Church, because he used the singular form of the noun. This doesn’t even take into consideration the Holy Spirit’s extensive discussion of the Church as the Body and Bride of Christ through the pen of St. Paul in his epistles. Look, when God Almighty, Incarnate, says, “I WILL BUILD MY CHURCH”, all debates about whether or not there even is a Church ends. If a person is so far gone that they can’t grind their way through that gearbox, then there’s nothing I or anyone else can do.
Now let’s discuss what the Church is. The Church consists of THREE PARTS: 1. The Church Militant – this is the Church on Earth, this is what we the living see. 2. The Church Suffering – this is Purgatory, where the souls of the saved go to be purged of all attachment to sin so that they might enter into the presence of God – the Beatific Vision. 3. The Church Triumphant – this is the Beatific Vision, The Most Holy Trinity, the angels and saints dwelling inside, pondering, adoring and worshipping God from the inside.
Some day, both the Church Militant and the Church Suffering will cease to exist. The earth, the physical universe, will someday cease to exist, and there will be no additional human beings made. The reason God has not yet brought about what we call “The end of the world” is because there are not yet enough human beings. God wants more people for heaven. Including the babies conceived by the poor, in violent or disordered circumstances, and by women who have already had multiple c-sections. GOD, not Pope Francis, determines how many humans there should be, and God is very, very clear on this question. He. Wants. More. People. To. Love.
Since the domain of the Church Militant is the physical universe, when there is no longer a physical universe or living human beings, there will be no Church Militant. Some day, the last saved soul will be fully purged of all attachment to sin and will enter heaven, and on that day the Church Suffering will cease to exist.
The Church Triumphant, however, will always exist, because the domain of the Church Triumphant is the Triune Godhead Himself, Who Is Existence Itself. Ever pray the Gloria Patri? Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost. As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
So let’s get our LOGIC jam on now, shall we? The Church, of which there is only one, is the Body and Bride of Christ, and all of the saved either are now or eventually will be in the Church Triumphant, which indwells, now and forever, inside the Triune Godhead.
Now grind through this, and fight the contra-education you have received as a child of the post-Christian, post-Modern west. How, EXACTLY, could a person be “saved” and be OUTSIDE of the Church?
Let’s attack this from the angle of the Judgment. What happens to every person when they die? They are judged by Jesus Christ.
Stop.
Do you believe this? No, seriously. Do you believe that EVERY SINGLE HUMAN BEING, regardless of race, religious confession, time, place, or any other variable, is judged by Jesus Christ? If you do not believe this, then I really don’t see how you can possibly claim to be a Christian. Now, if you don’t like hearing this, you can go listen to Pope Francis spew some irrational, illogical, Modernist, faux-ecumenical garbage, but understand that his priority is very different from mine. I am interested in the eternal fate of your soul. Pope Francis, it seems, just wants to be popular. Let’s go through a list:
What happens to Christians when they die? They are judged by Jesus Christ, and will either attain the Beatific Vision in the Church Triumphant, or be damned to hell.
What happens to Jews when they die? They are judged by Jesus Christ, and will either attain the Beatific Vision in the Church Triumphant, or be damned to hell.
What happens to Hindus when they die? They are judged by Jesus Christ, and will either attain the Beatific Vision in the Church Triumphant, or be damned to hell.
What happens to atheists when they die? They are judged by Jesus Christ, and will either attain the Beatific Vision in the Church Triumphant, or be damned to hell.
What happens to musloids when they die? They are judged by Jesus Christ, and will either attain the Beatific Vision in the Church Triumphant, or be damned to hell.
What happens to animists when they die? They are judged by Jesus Christ, and will either attain the Beatific Vision in the Church Triumphant, or be damned to hell.
Noticing a pattern? Mmmmmm?
I have an anecdote. If you recall, a few years ago I attempted to take a course on Aristotelian and Thomistic Ethics through the Archdiocese of Denver. That’s the one that the Novus Ordo Kathys asked the instructor (who was great) to throw me out of, because I didn’t respect “their truth” or whatever. Well, besides myself and the Kathys, there was one man in the class – a guy in his 60s who did nothing but sleep and talk on his cell phone. I don’t think he ever actually heard a single word the instructor said. Behavior like that REALLY chaps me. Anyway, at the last session I attended there was a discussion at the end of the class, and this guy woke up and said the following, at which I was CLIMBING THE WALLS:
“I’m a catechism teacher for the teens over at St. Xxxx’s and have been for years. The kids ask about reincarnation for the Hindus, and I tell them, “SURE, THAT’S POSSIBLE. IF THAT IS WHAT THOSE PEOPLE BELIEVE, WHY NOT? WHO’S TO SAY THAT THERE ISN’T REINCARNATION? WE DON’T KNOW.”
So, lesson one here is: DO NOT SEND YOUR KIDS TO ANY SORT OF CATECHISM CLASSES IN A NOVUS ORDO PARISH. I’m sorry, but it is just that simple. They will let ANYONE who volunteers teach, and most of these people, whether we like it or not and whether it is malicious or not, are full-blown heretics if not outright apostates. Ah, the New Pentecost (TM). Not QUITE as awesome as the original.
The second lesson is, as we discussed above, people today are so far gone that they can recite the Creed at Mass every Sunday, to wit the parts about “He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead” and “we look for the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come”, and then stand in front of a CATHOLIC CATECHISM CLASS and tell a bunch of kids that, sure, if Hindus believe in reincarnation, who’s to say they aren’t reincarnated? AND THEN BRAG ABOUT IT IN A CATHOLIC ADULT ED CLASS. There is zero sensation of cognitive dissonance or even tension in holding two utterly, completely contradictory positions. 2+2 equals 4. But also 762, and aren’t I just one of the cool kids because I don’t actually believe in the concept of “truth”, because I’m tolerant, and frankly, a little self-loathing, too. The mind simply reels.
Let’s focus in on the so-called Christian denominations now. Do we honestly believe that there are multiple “heavens”? Do we honestly believe that there is a Presbyterian heaven, and a Methodist heaven, and a Baptist heaven? Do we honestly believe that there is a heaven where sodomy, for example, is NOT a sin, where all of the people who believe that sodomy is great will get to go? Is there a heaven where contraception is not a sin – because ALL of the protesting sects today deny the sinfulness of contraception? Again, let’s get our logic groove rolling again. How can the Triune Godhead hold contradictory positions as both being true? Either sodomy is a sin or it isn’t. Either the Eucharist is the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ physically, substantially present, or it isn’t. Either the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is the eternal liturgy of heaven, or it isn’t. A house divided cannot stand. If God holds contradictory positions as both “true”, then there is no truth, and thus there is no God. THIS is the inevitable logical consequence of the Protestant revolt – atheism.
Now this is the part that was so compelling for me in my conversion process. What of people who cannot, through no fault of their own, either know about or enter the Church? Can these people be saved? The answer is: yes. It is possible. Let’s take all of the people, for example, who lived their lives on the North American continent in the 1450 years between the establishment of the Church by Christ in the Upper Room in ARSH 33, and the landing of Columbus in North America in ARSH 1492. How could a man born on the Great Plains in the 5th century, living his entire life 1000 years before any Christian steps foot on the same continent, making it a physical impossibility that he could have known of Christ, much less His Church, much less received baptism in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost, be saved? How could such a man, and billions of others like him over the centuries, possibly be not only saved, but saved IN THE CHURCH, outside of which there is no salvation according to the axiom? The answer is: The Natural Law. Christ judged the 5th century Plains Indian according to the Natural Law, which is indelibly inscribed on the heart of every human being by God. Is it more difficult for those outside The Church? Of course. That is why the Church is a Gift from God, and the most obvious manifestation of His love for us, even above and beyond nature and the stars. The 5th century Plains Indian could not go to the sacrament of confession and hear the words:
God, the Father of mercies, through the death and resurrection of His Son has reconciled the world to Himself and sent the Holy Spirit among us for the forgiveness of sins; through the ministry of the Church may God give you pardon and peace, and I absolve you from your sins in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.
But we CAN go to confession and we CAN hear those words, and our sins, venial and mortal, can be forgiven AT ANY TIME. The Catholic Church is a Gift from God.
And so that 5th century Plains Indian, if he lived his life in accord with the Natural Law, coupled with genuine invincible ignorance (due to physical location), made it through his Particular Judgment before Our Lord, is now far, far, far more Catholic than any of us. He knows the Mass better than the greatest liturgist alive today, because he is right there at the Altar, worshiping God in the perpetual sacrifice and immolation of the Lamb. He isn’t in some separate animist-pagan heaven for red skinned Injuns (HAD to throw that in). He is in the one and only heaven that there is, which is indwelling in the only God there is, which is His Mystical Body and Bride, Church Triumphant, which is most certainly CATHOLIC, because what the word “catholic” means is “universal” or, perhaps more accurately, “on the whole”.
And so it follows from this that Our Good God has not created one single human being “damned”. Every one of us – and scientists today speculate that there have been roughly 110 billion human beings ever – and every person who ever will be, has been knit together, atom by atom, cell by cell, personally by God who provided and provides a means and path and grace sufficient for every one of us to make it to heaven. Including the eighth consecutive child delivered by c-section. Many, many did not and will not make it, but that is our own fault.
Now, isn’t that satisfying? Doesn’t it make sense? Doesn’t it just drip with integrity and logical coherence? AND LOVE?
The big obstacle for post-Christian culture is to shake the pathological need to deny that there is, in fact, ONE TRUTH, and thus ONE CHURCH, and thus ONE TRUE RELIGION, as the world, ruled as it is by satan and his minions, calls us “intolerant”, “rigid”, “fundamentalist”, “haters”, “Nazis” and “Taliban”.
I BELIEVE that the Catholic Church is the ONE, TRUE CHURCH of Christ, instituted by Him in the Upper Room, and is now and always will be His Body and His Bride. There is only ONE Church. There is only ONE True Religion. There is only one heaven, and there is only one God, who is the One and Only Judge of every human being.
Which is why I will scream from the rooftops without the least hesitation or shame:
EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS!
OUTSIDE OF THE CHURCH THERE IS NO SALVATION!
Because I actually believe it.
And fear of the authority of scripture is a bad way to go through life.
It's no secret that your religion avoids scripture, except where it can get a verse or a few words out of a verse to hornswaggle you guys who don't bother with scripture...
Are you a Christian???
God left some instructions for Christians...
2Ti_3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti_4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
Are those just little snippets of scripture??? Or can you get some real meaning out of them???
You're a Christian??? God left those instructions for YOU as well...
“All that matter is obedience to Christ.”
....but there is good money to be made in getting people to think that you can interpret what that means, and in granting exceptions.
This article is all about monetizing the market demand for Salvation. There is almost no production cost after facilities costs are already sunk - so money made selling “Salvation” is pure profit.
Because you already did and it would have been redundant.
Why didn't YOU post the whole passage where JAMES stands up and speaks his piece and where the church makes the decision unanimously?
None, as the NT church never ordained anyone as an separate class of believers distinctively titled “hiereus”="priests," but presbuteros (senior/elder) or episkopos (superintendent/overseer), that being one office. (Titus 1:5-7)
Nor did they engage in a unique sacrificial function, such as preparing and dispensing physical food as their primary ordained function, as an expiation for sins, and which is then physically consumed to gain spiritual and eternal life
Instead, prayer and preaching as shepherds was their manifest distinctive primary function, and which word is what is said to "nourish" the souls of believers, and believing it is how the lost obtain life in themselves. (1 Timothy 4:6; Psalms 19:7;Acts 15:7-9)
This canard has been refuted for a long time now.
Please review DA Carson's (An Evangelical, by the way) scholarly article on the subject.
Cynical’s post is just a snippit, it makes no sense(at least to me) all on it’s own.
Apparently honesty isn't one of your better qualities...CB didn't post that scripture all on its own...This is what was posted:
Galatians 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
And that's not a 'snippet'...It's a complete scripture...And very easy to understand, even for an honest Catholic...And then CB continued with:
Now show us where the apostles taught the necessity of believing in the assumption of Mary. If you can't, then we must consider the Catholic Church who does teach it to be accursed.
And as we know, believing that Mary was sinless and was assumed to heaven is not only non scriptural but a doctrine/gospel of your Catholic religion...And Gal. 1:9 addresses your religion with that false gospel...
What were you doing in post 108? I guess I am leaping to the wild conclusion that when you replied to my question about the source of the other posters authority, it implied the claim to the authority to respond with that particular snippit yourself but as you and others have said I have problems and I can’t argue with that.
I have to go for a bit but your comment reminds me of a line from the blues brothers “Fat, Drunk and Stupid is no way to go thru life son.” I may just have to do that until I find a better path.
I don’t think I am afraid of the authority of scripture but I don’t take the claims of individuals to interpret that scripture as authoritative on their own merit. I want something more, much more. I keep looking it but so far what I have found in the One, True, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church satisfies my sense of reason the best.
God Bless
It's no secret that your religion avoids scripture, except where it can get a verse or a few words out of a verse to hornswaggle you guys who don't bother with scripture...
Okie dokie.
Are you a Christian???
I self-identify myself as a low info, non-denominational Christian.
And in y'all's PvC war, I'm Switzerland...aka a neutral, "non-combatant".
Good luck with the war. Hope Dad approves...
Say what? In what alternate world does "I judge not to trouble" mean "James then concurred"?
Thanks for the comments but it looks as if you too are now in their sights.
Well if your takin flack, you must be over the target.
That's pretty simple...You condemn people for using scripture while God commands us to 'use' scripture to rebuke, reprove those who come up with false doctrine...And that scripture was written to all Christians...Even those who condemn using scripture...
And you need to stop "special pleading."
What part of that don't you understand?
I guess you missed the part where it says that even our faith is a gift and given to us by God.
Bad analogy. That person didn't also give us the ability and the inclination to take it. God not only gives us the faith but He also gives us the ability and the desire to take it.
Salvation in Christ alone - apart from any merit on our part, apart from a particular denomination and by faith alone through the WONDEROUS grace of God - Placemarker!
**God not only gives us the faith but He also gives us the ability and the desire to take it.**
Which proves my point. If one refuses to believe that baptism in the name of Jesus Christ is for the remission of sins, then one is lacking faith.
It's even WORSE than proclaimed!!
Bonaventure: …the gates of heaven will open to all who confide in the protection of Mary. Blessed are they who know thee, O Mother of God, for the knowledge of THEE is the high road to everlasting life, and the publication of thy virtues is the way of ETERNAL SALVATION . Give ear, O ye nations; and all you who desire heaven , serve, honor Mary, and certainly you will find ETERNAL LIFE.
Ephem: …devotion to the divine Mother…is the unlocking of the heavenly Jerusalem.
Blosius: To the, O Lady, are committed the KEYS and the treasures of the kingdom of Heaven.
Ambrose: …constantly pray ‘Open to us, O Mary, the gates of paradise, since thou hast its KEYS.
Fulgetius: …by Mary God descended from Heaven into the world, that by HER man might ascend from earth to Heaven.
Athanasius: …And, thou, O Lady, wast filled with grace, that thou mightiest be the way of our SALVATION and the means of ascent to the heavenly Kingdom.
Richard of Laurence: Mary, in fine, is the mistress of heaven; for there she commands as she wills, and ADMITS whom she wills.
Guerric: …he who serves Mary and for whom she intercedes, is as CERTAIN of heaven as if he were already there…and those who DO NOT serve Mary will NOT BE SAVED.
Anselm: It suffices, O Lady, that thou willest it, and our SALVATION is certain.
Antoninus: …souls protected by Mary, and on which she casts her eyes, are NECESSARILY JUSTIFIED AND SAVED.
Here it is again.
Matthew 16:18 - http://bible.cc/matthew/16-18.htm
Jesus said that Peter was *petros*(masculine) and that on this *petra*(feminine) He would build His church.
Greek: 4074 Pétros (a masculine noun) – properly, a stone (pebble), such as a small rock found along a pathway. 4074 /Pétros (”small stone”) then stands in contrast to 4073 /pétra (”cliff, boulder,” Abbott-Smith).
“4074 (Pétros) is an isolated rock and 4073 (pétra) is a cliff” (TDNT, 3, 100). “4074 (Pétros) always means a stone . . . such as a man may throw, . . . versus 4073 (pétra), a projecting rock, cliff” (S. Zodhiates, Dict).
4073 pétra (a feminine noun) – “a mass of connected rock,” which is distinct from 4074 (Pétros) which is “a detached stone or boulder” (A-S). 4073 (pétra) is a “solid or native rock, rising up through the earth” (Souter) – a huge mass of rock (a boulder), such as a projecting cliff.
4073 (petra) is “a projecting rock, cliff (feminine noun) . . . 4074 (petros, the masculine form) however is a stone . . . such as a man might throw” (S. Zodhiates, Dict).
It’s also a strange way to word the sentence that He would call Peter a rock and say that on this I will build my church instead of *on you* as would be grammatically correct in talking to a person.
There is no support from the original Greek that Peter was to be the rock on which Jesus said he would build His church. The nouns are not the same, one being masculine and the other being feminine. They denote different objects.
Also, here, Paul identifies who petra is, and that is Christ. This link takes you to the Greek.
http://biblehub.com/text/1_corinthians/10-4.htm
1 Corinthians 10:1-4 For I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, and all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual Rock (petra) that followed them, and the Rock (petra) was Christ.
http://biblehub.com/text/romans/9-33.htm
Romans 9:30-33 What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith; but that Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness did not succeed in reaching that law. Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone, as it is written,“Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling, and a rock (petra) of offense; and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”
http://biblehub.com/text/1_peter/2-8.htm
1 Peter 2:1-8 So put away all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander. Like newborn infants, long for the pure spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up into salvation— if indeed you have tasted that the Lord is good.
As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious, you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. For it stands in Scripture: “Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a cornerstone chosen and precious, and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”
So the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe,
“The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,”
and
“A stone of stumbling, and a rock (petra) of offense.”
They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do.
All occurrences of *petra* in the Greek.
http://biblehub.com/greek/strongs_4073.htm
Paul says the rock (petra) is Christ.
How much plainer does it need to be stated?
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