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The Gospel According to History
Truth2Freedom's ^ | Feburary 1,2013 | Nathan Busenitz

Posted on 02/05/2015 7:55:56 AM PST by RnMomof7

In part 4 of this series, we compared the apostolic doctrine of justification by grace through faith alone with modern Roman Catholic claims to the contrary. That New Testament emphasis (on a gospel of grace apart from works) became the foundation for the Protestant Reformation and its central tenet of sola fide. The biblical teaching on that issue remains the authoritative basis on which an evangelical understanding of the gospel is built.

But while modern evangelicals rightly conclude that the doctrine of sola fide is founded in Scripture, many wrongly assume that there is relatively little support for that position in pre- Reformation church history. Nothing could be further from the truth. Over the next two installments in this series, we will survey 25 early Christian leaders—each of whom affirmed the truth that justification is through faith alone and not on the basis of works.

Let’s start with Clement of Rome. Clement pastored the church in Rome from about AD 90 to 100. That means, as a church leader, he was a contemporary of the apostle John. He was also a disciple of the apostle Paul, and he is even mentioned by Paul in Philippians 4:3. So, his testimony is very early. Because he was a pastor in Rome, the Roman Catholic Church considers him to be the fourth pope. But listen to what he wrote in his letter to the Corinthians. This is one of the earliest Christian documents that we have outside of the New Testament. In chapter 32 of his epistle, he says this:

 

 

1. Clement of Rome: And we [Christians], too, being called by His will in Christ Jesus, are not justified by ourselves, nor by our own wisdom, or understanding, or godliness, or works which we have wrought in holiness of heart; but by that faith through which, from the beginning, Almighty God has justified all men; to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen.1

 

 

It does not get much clearer than that. We are justified through faith and not through good works. To Clement’s voice, we can add a chorus of others:

 

 

2. Polycarp of Smyrna (c. 69–160): I rejoice that the secure root of your faith, proclaimed from ancient times, even now continues to abide and bear fruit in our Lord Jesus Christ. He persevered to the point of death on behalf of our sins; and God raised him up after loosing the labor pains of Hades. Even without seeing him, you believe in him with an inexpressible and glorious joy that many long to experience. For you know that you have been saved by a gracious gift—not from works but by the will of God through Jesus

Christ.”2

 

 

Note: Much like Augustine (who was quoted in the Part 4 of this series), Polycarp emphasized the reality that salvation is a gracious gift that comes through faith alone. At

 

the same time, however, genuine faith is never alone. It inevitably produces fruits of obedience. Thus, Polycarp could tell his readers that the secure root of their faith would bear fruit in the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

 

3. Ignatius of Antioch (c. 50–c. 110): But to me Jesus Christ is in the place of all that is ancient: His cross, and death, and resurrection, and the faith which is by Him, are undefiled monuments of antiquity; by which I desire, through your prayers, to be justified.3

 

 

4. Epistle to Diognetus (second century): He gave His own Son as a ransom for us, the holy One for transgressors, the blameless One for the wicked, the righteous One for the unrighteous, the incorruptible One for the corruptible, the immortal One for them that are mortal. For what other thing was capable of covering our sins than His righteousness? By what other one was it possible that we, the wicked and ungodly, could be justified, than by the only Son of God? O sweet exchange! O unsearchable operation! O benefits surpassing all expectation! That the wickedness of many should be hid in a single

righteous One, and that the righteousness of One should justify many transgressors!4

 

 

5. Justin Martyr (100–165): In his debate with a Jewish man named Trypho, Justin refers to Christians as “those who repented, and who no longer were purified by the blood of goats and of sheep, or by the ashes of an heifer, or by the offerings of fine flour, but by faith through the blood of Christ, and through His death.”5

 

 

6. Origen of Alexandria (185–254): A man is justified by faith. The works of the law can make no contribution to this. Where there is no faith which might justify the believer, even if there are works of the law these are not based on the foundation of faith. Even if they are good in themselves they cannot justify the one who does them, because faith is lacking, and faith is the mark of those who are justified by God.6

 

 

(Origen again) For God is just, and therefore he could not justify the unjust. Therefore he required the intervention of a propitiator, so that by having faith in him those who could not be justified by their own works might be justified.7

 

 

(Origen again) [Regarding the thief on the cross]: Who has been justified by faith alone without works of the law? Thus in my opinion that thief was crucified with Christ should suffice for a suitable example. He called out to him from the cross, “Lord Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom!” In the Gospels, nothing else is recorded about his good works, but for the sake of this faith alone Jesus said to him,

“Truly I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.”8

 

7. Didymus the Blind (c. 313-398): A person is saved by grace, not by works but by faith.

There should be no doubt but that faith saves and then lives by doing its own works, so that the works which are added to salvation by faith are not those of the law but a different kind of thing altogether.”9

 

 

8. Basil of Caesarea (329–379): Let one who boasts boast in the Lord, that Christ has been made by God for us righteousness, wisdom, justification, redemption. This is perfect and pure boasting in God, when one is not proud on account of his own righteousness but knows that he is indeed unworthy of the true righteousness and is justified solely by faith in Christ. And Paul boasts that he despises his own righteousness, seeking that

righteousness that is on account of Christ, which is the righteousness of God by faith.10

 

 

(Basil again) An eternal rest awaits those who have rightly contended in this life; not because of the merits of their works but from the grace of a most bountiful God, in which they have hoped.11

 

 

9. Athanasius (c. 296–373): For naturally, since the Logos of God was above all, when He offered His own temple and bodily instrument as a substitute for the life of all, He fulfilled by death all that was required.12

 

 

Note: The total sufficiency of Christ’s death on the Cross runs contrary to Roman Catholic doctrine, in which sinners must do more on their own to secure salvation.

 

 

10. Hilary of Poitiers (300–368): Wages cannot be considered as a gift, because they are due to work, but God has given free grace to all men by the justification of faith.13

 

 

Note: Significantly, Hilary explains that “faith justifies” some twenty times in his thirty- three chapter commentary on Matthew’s gospel. This is just one such example.

 

 

11. Ambrose (339–397): I have nothing, therefore, whereby I may glory in my works; I have nothing to boast of, and, therefore, I will glory in Christ. I will not glory because I am righteous, but because I am redeemed. I will not glory because I am free from sin, but because my sins are pardoned. I will not glory because I have done good to any one, or any one has done good to me, but because Christ is my advocate with the Father, and

because Christ’s blood was shed for me.14

 

 

(Ambrose again) Therefore let no one boast of his works, because no one can be justified by his works; but he who is just receives it as a gift, because he is justified by the washing of regeneration. It is faith, therefore, which delivers us by the blood of Christ, because blessed is he whose sins are forgiven, and to whom pardon is granted.15

 

 

(Ambrose again) “Ye behold the mysteries, ye behold the grace of Christ, and the grace of the Holy Spirit, which is conferred in some sort fortuitously; forasmuch as everyone is not justified by the Lord by reason of his works, but by reason of his faith.16

 

 

12. John Chrysostom (347–407): Even faith, [Paul] says, is not from us. For if the Lord had not come, if he had not called us, how should we have been able to believe? “For how,” [Paul] says, “shall they believe if they have not heard?” (Rom. 10:14). So even the act of faith is not self-initiated. It is, he says, “the gift of God” (Eph. 2:8c).17

 

 

(Chrysostom again) God allowed his Son to suffer as if a condemned sinner, so that we might be delivered from the penalty of our sins. This is God’s righteousness, that we are not justified by works (for then they would have to be perfect, which is impossible), but by grace, in which case all our sin is removed.18

 

 

(Chrysostom again) For as people, on receiving some great good, ask themselves if it is not a dream, as not believing it; so it is with respect to the gifts of God. What then was it that was thought incredible? That those who were enemies and sinners, justified by neither the law nor works, should immediately through faith alone be advanced to the highest favor. On this head [topic] accordingly Paul has discoursed at length in his Epistle to the Romans, and here again at length. “This is a faithful saying,” he says, “ and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners.” As the Jews were chiefly attracted by this, he persuades them not to listen to the law, since they could not attain salvation by it without faith. Against this he contends, for it seemed to them incredible that a person who had misspent all his former life in vain and wicked actions should afterwards be saved by his faith alone. On this account he says, “It is a

saying to be believed.”19

 

 

(Chrysostom again) To have brought humanity, more senseless than stones, to the dignity of angels simply through bare words, and faith alone, without any hard work, is indeed a rich and glorious mystery. It is just as if one were to take a dog, quite consumed with hunger and the mange, foul and loathsome to see, and not so much as able to move but lying passed out, and make him all at once into a human being and to display him upon

the royal throne.20

 

 

(Chrysostom again) What is the “law of faith?” It is, being saved by grace. Here he shows God’s power, in that He has not only saved, but has even justified, and led them to boasting, and this too without needing works, but looking for faith only.21

 

(Chrysostom again) Now since the Jews kept turning over and over the fact, that the Patriarch, and friend of God, was the first to receive circumcision, he wishes to show, that it was by faith that he too was justified. And this was quite a vantage ground to insist upon. For a person who had no works, to be justified by faith, was nothing unlikely. But for a person richly adorned with good deeds, not to be made just from hence, but from

faith, this is the thing to cause wonder, and to set the power of faith in a strong light.22

 

 

(Chrysostom again) And this he removes, with great skill and prudence, turning their argument against themselves, and showing that those who relinquish the Law are not only not cursed, but blessed; and they who keep it, not only not blessed but cursed. They said that he who kept not the Law was cursed, but he proves that he who kept it was cursed, and he who kept it not, blessed. Again, they said that he who adhered to faith alone was cursed, but he shows that he who adhered to faith alone, is blessed. And how does he prove all this? for it is no common thing which we have promised; wherefore it is necessary to give close attention to what follows. He had already shown this, by referring to the words spoken to the Patriarch, ‘In thee shall all nations be blessed,’ (Genesis 12:4.)

at a time, that is, when Faith existed, not the Law.23

 

 

(Chrysostom again) God’s mission was not to save people in order that they may remain barren or inert. For Scripture says that faith has saved us. Put better: Since God willed it, faith has saved us. Now in what case, tell me, does faith save without itself doing anything at all? Faith’s workings themselves are a gift of God, lest anyone should boast. What then is Paul saying? Not that God has forbidden works but that he has forbidden us to be justified by works. No one, Paul says, is justified by works, precisely in order that

the grace and benevolence of God may become apparent.24

 

 

(Chrysostom again) The patriarch Abraham himself before receiving circumcision had been declared righteous on the score of faith alone: before circumcision, the text says, “Abraham believed God, and credit for it brought him to righteousness.”25

 

 

13. Augustine (354–430): When someone believes in him who justifies the impious, that faith is reckoned as justice to the believer, as David too declares that person blessed whom God has accepted and endowed with righteousness, independently of any righteous actions (Rom 4:5-6). What righteousness is this? The righteousness of faith, preceded by no good works, but with good works as its consequence.26

 

 

(Augustine again) What is grace? That which is freely given. What is “freely given”? Given, not paid. If it was due, wages would be given, but grace would not be bestowed. But if it was really due, then you were good. But if, as is true, you were evil but believed on him who justifies the ungodly (What is, “who justifies the ungodly”? the ungodly is

 

made righteous), consider what by right hung over you by the law and you have obtained by grace. But having obtained that grace by faith, you will be just by faith—“for the just lives by faith.”27

 

 

We will continue our survey of early Christian leaders in Part 6 of this series. But even this is more than enough to demonstrate that the church fathers were no proponents of a synergistic, works-based form of justification. When the Reformers proclaimed the doctrine of sola fide, they were not only articulating that which is clearly taught in the New Testament; they were also echoing the gospel truth that had been championed by earlier generations of faithful pastors and church leaders.

Evangelical Christians today should be encouraged to see that truth so clearly defined and defended by the most well-known names in early church history.

 

Notes: The Gospel According to Church History – Part 5

 

1 Clement of Rome, First Epistle to the Corinthians, 32.4.

 

2 Polycarp of Smyrna, Epistle to the Philippians, 1.2–3; trans. by Bart D. Ehrman, The Apostolic Fathers, Loeb, 333–335.

 

3 Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to Philadelphians, 8.

 

4 Epistle to Digonetus, 9.2–5; ANF 1:28; cited from Thomas Oden, The Justification Reader, 65.

 

5 Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho, 13.

 

6 Origen, Commentary on the Epistle to the Romans; CER 2.136; ACCS NT 6:104; cited from Thomas Oden, The Justification Reader, 45.

 

7 Origen, Commentary on the Epistle to the Romans, 2:112; ACCS NT 6:102–3; cited from Thomas Oden, The Justification Reader, 63

 

8 Origen, Commentary on the Epistle to the Romans, 3.9.3; cited from Joel C. Elowsky,

We Believe in the Holy Spirit, 99.

 

9 Didymus the Blind, Commentary on James, 2:26b.

 

10 Basil, Sermon on Humility, 22; cited from Joel C. Elowsky, We Believe in the Holy Spirit, 98.

 

11 Basil, Homily on Psalm 114; cited from Joel C. Elowsky, We Believe in the Holy Spirit, 99.

 

12 Athanasius, On the Incarnation of the Logos, 6–7, 9.

 

13 Hilary, Commentary on Matthew, re: Matt. 20:7.

 

14 Ambrose, Concerning Jacob and a Happy Life, 1.6; cited from G. Finch, A Sketch of the Romish Controversy, 220.

 

15 Ambrose, Letter 73; cited from G. Finch, A Sketch of the Romish Controversy, 220.

 

16 Ambrose, An Exhortation to Virginity; cited from George Finch, A Sketch of the Romish Controversy, 220.

 

17 John Chrysostom, Homily on Ephesians 2:8; IOEP 2:160; ACCS NT 8:134; cited from Thomas Oden, The Justification Reader, 44.

 

18 John Chrysostom, Homilies on the Epistles of Paul to the Corinthians, 11:5; NPNF 1 12:334; ACCS NT 7:252; cited from Thomas Oden, The Justification Reader, 61.

 

19 John Chrysostom, Homilies on 1 Timothy 1:15–16; cited from Joel C. Elowsky, We Believe in the Holy Spirit, 98.

 

20 John Chrysostom, Homilies on Colossians 1:26–28; Cited from Joel C. Elowsky, We Believe in the Holy Spirit, 98.

 

21 John Chrysostom, Homilies on the Epistle of Paul the Apostle to the Romans, 7.27.

 

22 John Chrysostom, Homilies on the Epistle of Paul the Apostle to the Romans, Homily 8; re: Rom. 4:1–2.

 

23 John Chrysostom, Commentary on Galatians, 3:8. Elsewhere Chrysostom writes, “For by faith alone He saved us. . . . Instead of a certain manner of life, He brought in faith. For that He might not save us to no purpose, He both Himself underwent the penalty, and also required of men the faith that is by doctrines” (cf. Chyrostom’s Homily on Ephesians 2:11–12).

 

 

24 John Chrysostom, Homily on Ephesians, 4.2.9. cited from Mark J. Edwards, ed., ACCS, NT VI: Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians (Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 1998),

134. See also John Chrysostom. F. Field, ed., Interpretatio omnium Epistolarum Paulinarum per Homilias Facta (Oxford J. H. Parker, 1845-1862), 2:160.

 

25 John Chrysostom, Cited from Fathers of the Church, Vol. 82, Homilies on Genesis 18-45, 27.7 (Washington, D.C.: The Catholic University of America Press, 1990), 167. On a somewhat related note, Chrysostom elsewhere explains that faith alone saves, even apart from something as important as water baptism. He writes, “Attend to this, you who come to baptism at the close of life, for we indeed pray that after baptism you may have also this deportment, but you are seeking and doing your utmost to depart without it. For, what though you be justified: yet is it of faith only. But we pray that thou should have as well the confidence that comes of good works” (John Chrysostom, On the Second Epistle of St. Paul The Apostle to the Corinthians, Homily 2.8).

 

26 Augustine, Exposition 2 of Psalm 31, 7. Expositions of the Psalms 1-32, Part 1, edited by John E. Rotelle, trans. Maria Boulding (Hyde Park: New City Press, 2000), 11:370.

 

27 Augustine, Tractates on the Gospel of John, John 1:15–18, Tractate 3.9 in NPNF, 7:21; cited from Gregg R. Allison, Historical Theology, 501.[1]


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Evangelical Christian; Theology
KEYWORDS: gospel; salvation; truth
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism; redleghunter

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>> “What is the purpose of baptism?” <<

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To yield your self completely to Yeshua, confessing, and repenting of your sins, and walking out ultimately to righteousness, as though the river in which you were baptized washed away the vestiges of your old sinful life.
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61 posted on 02/06/2015 9:06:59 AM PST by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: editor-surveyor

Perhaps you didn’t realize that the word translated “church” or “assembly” is the same word used to describe the congregation of Israel in the wilderness, and their assemblies at the feasts, etc.

When Jesus said “I will build My church”, He wasn’t talking about a building with a spire and a cross on top, and a pulpit and pews inside. He was talking about a group of people - HIS congregation of people, as distinguished from other, previous ones such as in Exodus 12:6 or Isaiah 1:13.

We find Jesus fulfilling that prediction in Acts 2, as He adds to His assembly/church/congregation those who are saved.

Given all the abuse and misuse of the word “church” in popular speech today, I can understand your reluctance to use it. But like “works”, what’s important is that we understand what the Bible authors meant when they used it, and use these words in the same way. Wouldn’t you agree?


62 posted on 02/06/2015 9:51:51 AM PST by LearsFool ("Thou shouldst not have been old, till thou hadst been wise.")
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism

Those who have trust and faith in the propitiatory sacrifice of Jesus Christ to cleanse one for all sins as a regenerated soul get in the water to proclaim in status. The change from condemned creature to new creation.

“But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.” 1 John 1:7


63 posted on 02/06/2015 10:43:58 AM PST by redleghunter (Your faith has saved you. Go in peace. (Luke 7:50))
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To: winodog
I would say those 7 churches are made up of law keeping Jews who believe that Jesus was the Messiah.

Say all you want; they are CATHOLIC churches.

Jews had SYNAGOGs; or had you forgotten?

64 posted on 02/06/2015 11:00:32 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism

Yup!

Acts 22:10
“’What shall I do, Lord?’ I asked. “
‘Get up,’ the Lord said, ‘and go into Damascus. There you will be told all that you have been assigned to do.’


65 posted on 02/06/2015 11:02:00 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
It is not Dr Luke and Paul who are confused........

The people read it and were glad for its encouraging message.


66 posted on 02/06/2015 11:02:43 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: LearsFool

I agree with your take on “assembly.”

Church is not what he said, church, even at the time that the English translations were first done was a human corporation, with man made rules, just like those of the Pharisees of old.

Most of the congregation in the wilderness was lost due to lack of faith and belief, as Paul noted in Hebrews, but a few then, just as a few now, had belief and faith and remained in his assembly. He makes no distinction between the believers in the desert, and his disciples when he walked the Earth.

Most of those attending “church” today are no better off than those of old that he declared would not find his rest. For that reason, it is counter-productive to allow the word ‘church’ to have a connotation of “house of believers.”

Yeshua assured us that few would find his way that leads to his narrow gate, and it is deceptively, perilously dishonest to allow the easy-believe class to find self assurance in the church they attend. There’ll be no salvation by association.

The word of God didn’t use the word church; it called for a congregation or assembly, not a local synagogue or national temple, thus I just do not use that wobbly word. Too many here really think a church can save them.

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67 posted on 02/06/2015 11:51:12 AM PST by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: stonehouse01; Elsie
The Church’s doctrines do not contradict a single line from those you copied from the Church Fathers; there is no contradiction whatsoever, and to imply that there is shows an utter lack of understanding of the doctrines of the Church.

So what does Rome do with the contradictions?

68 posted on 02/06/2015 12:32:11 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: LearsFool; winodog
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>> “Now the question becomes, what sort of works IS he talking about when he says salvation is “not of works” (Eph. 2:9, etc.)?

If we can determine that, I think we can clear up this whole confusion” <<

====================================== .
There are actually a number op places to look, each of which should provide sufficient clues to determine what the repulsive works must be.

First, it is notable that it is only Paul that cautions against any works. The other writers never brought the subject up. There is a clue buried in this fact: Paul is the only apostle that taught and enforced, even to the point of murder, the false law of the Pharisees. The others lived under them until Yeshua explained their invalidity, but never taught them.

Additional help comes from places where Paul supports works just as strongly as James and John did.

Romans 2:

[12] For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
[13] (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
[14] For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
[15] Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts,

Or 1Corinthians 11:

[1] Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.
[2] Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.

It is also notable that Paul made a concerted effort to keep every feast, even if it meant a sea voyage to get to Jerusalem soon enough.

Luke, writing in Acts made it clear that the Law of Moses was what Paul taught in attempt to make believers of the people he encountered:

Acts 28:

[23] And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.
[24] And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.
[25] And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,
[26] Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
[27] For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

The quote of Isaiah also shows us another thing; that those he evangelized that day were definitely Hebrews.

One would have to believe that Paul was schizophrenic, not to realize that he argued two different sets of laws.

69 posted on 02/06/2015 12:34:55 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: editor-surveyor

The beatitudes are Gods constitution for the Kingdom. In other words that is what it will be like when God establishes his kingdom on the earth. The one the law abiding jews have been waiting 3,500 years for.

I apologize for the harsh words earlier. Thanks for not responding in kind. That does no good kinda like us preaching at each other. : )


70 posted on 02/06/2015 12:52:47 PM PST by winodog (hang on tight to Gods salvation)
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To: Elsie

lol touché on the “say” part.
Those “churches” are the called out assembly of jews who believe Christ was the Messiah. They are waiting for the trib to start.


71 posted on 02/06/2015 12:55:34 PM PST by winodog (hang on tight to Gods salvation)
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To: Elsie

By the way, Peter stayed in Jerusalem preaching to Jews, he never went out to the world with the other Apostles like Paul did. If those seven churches were gentiles then who established them?


72 posted on 02/06/2015 1:07:34 PM PST by winodog (hang on tight to Gods salvation)
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To: redleghunter

” get in the water to proclaim in status”

So says the tradition of men.

The Scriptures teach something completely different.

The Scriptures declare baptism saves us.
The Scriptures declare baptism is for remission of sins.
The Scriptures declare baptism is for receiving the Holy Spirit.
The Scriptures declare baptism places one in Christ.

Funny how the Church left behind by the Apostles taught baptism as it is found in the Scriptures, as evidenced by the writings of the Church Fathers.

The whole tradition of men that baptism is for obedience or a public declaration of the salvation which had already occurred did not appear on the world stage until the 16th century.


73 posted on 02/06/2015 1:45:08 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: winodog

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It is wholly proper that we get hot about this stuff, its eternal life, or NOT!

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74 posted on 02/06/2015 1:58:14 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism; redleghunter

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>> “The Scriptures declare baptism saves us.
The Scriptures declare baptism is for remission of sins.
The Scriptures declare baptism is for receiving the Holy Spirit.
The Scriptures declare baptism places one in Christ.” <<

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Not the kind of “Baptism” you’re talking about!!!!

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75 posted on 02/06/2015 2:00:23 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: editor-surveyor
"For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified."

Yes, indeed. But ARE there any doers of the law who will be justified?

See, Paul is arguing here that just HAVING the law doesn't justify anyone. You've got to KEEP the law - and keep it perfectly - before you can be found "not guilty". That's the "works" of Romans right there: Flawless law-keeping.

So again, are there any justified doers of the law? "No, not one."

"for we before laid to the charge both of Jews and Greeks, that they are all under sin; as it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one" - Rom. 3:9ff

"that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may be brought under the judgment of God: because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified in his sight; for through the law cometh the knowledge of sin." - 3:19-20

So what are you saying, Paul? Why is is that no one can be justified by works of the law? Because all the law can do is expose our sin...only drag us before the Judge and accuse us...only point out our crimes and convict us.

The only way works of law could justify a man is if he never violated it. Such a man could stand fearless before the Judge and the law could make no charge stick against him. God would HAVE to acquit him, because he's guiltless. (With "works" like that, sure, a man could boast before God!)

But since nobody is in that position ("for all have sinned"), Paul can safely say, "by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified in his sight."

If we're ever to stand before the Judge guiltless, it'll have to be on some other basis than our law-keeping record - our record of "works of the law" - because we screwed up that option the first time we sinned.

Our Plan A for justification (acquittal) was to keep the law without sinning. Looks like we're gonna need a Plan B!
76 posted on 02/06/2015 2:02:17 PM PST by LearsFool ("Thou shouldst not have been old, till thou hadst been wise.")
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To: Elsie; winodog

.
Synagogue is a Greek word, or had you forgotten?

Jews didn’t speak Greek, even the few that Knew Greek.

The Maccabee revolt settled that long before Yeshua arrived in person.

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77 posted on 02/06/2015 2:04:16 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: LearsFool

.
>> “Yes, indeed. But ARE there any doers of the law who will be justified?” <<

.
Yes, millions of them that do the law because he wrote it on their hearts.

Those that know him not, but “do” the law will be judged by the law as everyone will, but will be found short.

>> “See, Paul is arguing here that just HAVING the law doesn’t justify anyone.” <<

Nope, you have to read the whole chapter.

He is simply pointing out that all that are in Yeshua do the law because it is their nature. “Written on their hearts.”
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78 posted on 02/06/2015 2:10:57 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: editor-surveyor
No, Paul disagrees:

"by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified in his sight"
79 posted on 02/06/2015 2:14:06 PM PST by LearsFool ("Thou shouldst not have been old, till thou hadst been wise.")
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To: editor-surveyor
Look at Paul's explanation of "Plan B", and I think you'll see that it sheds more light on what he means by "works of the law":

"We reckon therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law." - 3:28

"For if Abraham was justified by works, he hath whereof to glory" - 4:2

"Now to him that worketh, the reward is not reckoned as of grace, but as of debt." - 4:4

And especially here:

"Even as David also pronounceth blessing upon the man, unto whom God reckoneth righteousness apart from works, saying,
Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered.
Blessed is the man to whom, the Lord will not reckon sin."
- 4:6-8

What does that mean, "righteousness apart from works"? Why, it's forgiveness.

There's a righteousness from works - that's flawless law-keeping, resulting in acquittal.
And there's a righteousness apart from works - that's forgiveness of law-breaking, resulting in acquittal.
80 posted on 02/06/2015 2:27:52 PM PST by LearsFool ("Thou shouldst not have been old, till thou hadst been wise.")
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