The Eucharist: Is the Real Presence Biblical?

Edward Sri via CERC ^ | December 28, 2014 | EDWARD SRI

[9thLife]

The "Real Presence" of Jesus in the Eucharist is rooted in Christ's own teachings.

When Jesus taught about the Eucharist, he spoke with a profound realism. At the Last Supper, he didn't say, "This is a symbol of my body." He said, "This is my body…" And when he gave his most in-depth teaching on the Eucharist, he spoke in a very realistic way — in a way that makes clear that the Eucharist is not just a symbol of Jesus, but is his flesh and blood made sacramentally present.

Let's enter into that dramatic scene, known as "The Bread of Life Discourse" in John's Gospel chapter six. Jesus had just performed his greatest miracle so far, multiplying loaves and fish to feed 5,000 people. The crowds are in awe. They declare him to be the great "prophet who is to come" and want to carry him off to make him king (John 6:14-15).

But the very next day, Jesus says something that sends his public approval ratings plummeting, something that makes those same raving fans now oppose him. Even some of his own disciples will walk away from him. What does Jesus say that was so controversial? He taught about partaking of his body and blood in the Eucharist. Jesus first says, "I am the bread of life…the true bread come down from heaven" (John 6:35). And he makes clear that he is not bread in some vague, figurative sense. He concludes, "…and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh" (John 6:51).

The people are shocked at this. They say, "How can this man give us his flesh to eat?" (John 6:52).

The Jews listening that day don't take Jesus as speaking metaphorically, as if we are to somehow only symbolically eat of his flesh. They understand Jesus very well. They know he is speaking realistically here, and that's why they are appalled.

Now here's the key: Jesus has every opportunity to clarify his teaching. But notice how that's precisely what he doesn't do. He doesn't back up and say, "Oh wait…I'm sorry…You misunderstood. I was only speaking metaphorically here!" He doesn't soften his teaching, saying "You just need to nourish yourself on my teaching, my wisdom, my love." Jesus does just the opposite. He uses even more graphic, more intense language to drive his point home: "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you" (John 6:53). And he goes on to underscore how essential partaking of his body and blood is for our salvation.

"He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him" (6:54-55).

In fact, Jesus now uses a word for "eat" that has even greater graphic intensity — trogein, which means to chew or gnaw — not a word that would be used figuratively here!

This is not the language of someone speaking metaphorically. Jesus wants to give us his very body and blood in the Eucharist. In fact, Jesus now uses a word for "eat" that has even greater graphic intensity — trogein, which means to chew or gnaw — not a word that would be used figuratively here!

So challenging is this teaching that even many of Christ's disciples are bewildered, saying "This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?" (John 6:60). Indeed, Christ's words on the Eucharist were too much for some of them to believe. Many of his disciples rejected Jesus over this teaching and left him (John 6:66). And Jesus let them go. He didn't chase after them, saying, "Wait! You misunderstood me." They understood quite well that Jesus was speaking about eating his flesh and blood, and they rejected this teaching. That's why Jesus let them go.

So it's clear that Jesus wants to give us his Body and Blood in the Eucharist. But we still must ask, why? In the Jewish, Biblical worldview of Jesus' day, the body is an expression of the whole person and the life is in the blood. So by giving us his Body and Blood in the Eucharist, Jesus is giving his very life to us, and he wants to unite himself to us in the most intimate way possible. He wants to fill us with his life and heal us of our wounds, strengthen us in his love change us to become more and more like him. That's the life-transforming power of the Eucharist in our lives. In Holy Communion, we have the most profound union with Our Lord Jesus Christ that we can have here on earth.

[Steelfish]

See post 19

[kinsman redeemer]

Is Jesus made of wood, have hinges, and a knob?
Was Jesus baked in an oven and has crust?
Is Jesus a hole in the ground and have a bucket on a rope?
Does Jesus hang on a trellis?

[LearnsFromMistakes]

Maybe if I format it like you did, you will be able to see it better.

Jesus (just before his death).

27 And taking the chalice, he gave thanks, and gave to them, saying: Drink ye all of this.
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which shall be shed for many unto remission of sins.
29 And I say to you, I will not drink from henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I shall drink it with you new in the kingdom of my Father.

I didn’t write it, and I hardly consider the red-letter words to be sophomoric. We have a choice when we read God’s written word. We can believe what we read, or read what we believe. Jesus said it. I enjoy reading the meaning that others discern from his word, but if it comes down to picking between church fathers and jesus, I will err on the side of jesus every time.

John 3 is where jesus started all that ‘born again bunk’. Again, I will go with the red letters. Easy choice.

[boatbums]

So challenging is this teaching that even many of Christ's disciples are bewildered, saying "This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?" (John 6:60). Indeed, Christ's words on the Eucharist were too much for some of them to believe. Many of his disciples rejected Jesus over this teaching and left him (John 6:66). And Jesus let them go. He didn't chase after them, saying, "Wait! You misunderstood me." They understood quite well that Jesus was speaking about eating his flesh and blood, and they rejected this teaching. That's why Jesus let them go.

The author omits some key verses between John 6:60 and verse 66. Here's what he left out:

60On hearing it, many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?”

61Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you? 62Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! 63The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life. 64Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.”

66From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

So, they question Jesus' "hard" saying, but the only ones who left from following him were those Jesus noted would not believe. The time frame from the sixth chapter of John until the actual Last Supper, was probably several YEARS. The Jewish people understood the use of metaphor and simile quite well. It was why when Jesus DID conduct the final supper with his disciples and set up the remembrance of the bread and wine, they already understood what he was talking about. Notice...nobody asked him to explain what he meant this time, they knew.

Two final questions...why is it Roman Catholics post so many threads about the Eucharist as if that is the ONLY thing that matters in the life of a Christian? Do RCs think that they are the ONLY believers who properly observe and remember our Lord in the Communion/Eucharist service and if people don't do it like they do they're wrong and going to hell?

[Steelfish]

This kind of shallow internet drive-by theology is no substitute for those Protestant theologians who have spent their entire lives studying this subject, authoring books, teaching and preaching, and then jettisoning all this Protestant born-again stuff by converting to Catholicism.

[CynicalBear]

There’s that claim that Jesus sinned by eating blood again.

[ravenwolf]

Silly protestant, only THEY can point to Bible verses to prove things. If we try it, they say we must defer to the hierarchy and tradition.

---

Yeah, but t is not us that says sola scripture is silly.

[ADSUM]

Your comment; “Two final questions...why is it Roman Catholics post so many threads about the Eucharist as if that is the ONLY thing that matters in the life of a Christian? Do RCs think that they are the ONLY believers who properly observe and remember our Lord in the Communion/Eucharist service and if people don't do it like they do they're wrong and going to hell?”

Yes, you are entitled to your own fallible opinion. The Apostles believed in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist.

The Real Presence is a long established teaching of the Catholic Church. If you were a follower of Jesus,Why wouldn't you want to physically be in the presence of Jesus Christ and receive Him in Communion and receive His graces?

Many spend hours in His presence and in some communities a procession of believers follows the Consecrated Host.

I believe that the Catholic Church is only place where a continuity of ordained priests and bishops since Peter have the authority and privilege to perform this mystery at the Sacrifice of Mass.

Other Christian churches do not have the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. Only God determines whether people go to Heaven, Purgatory or Hell. We try to follow Jesus through His teachings and he told us we need His Body and Blood for our salvation and the teachings of His Church.

[ADSUM]

your comment: “There’s that claim that Jesus sinned by eating blood again”

Again your personal fallible opinion that you keep repeating.

You keep calling Jesus a “sinner”. Catholics have never claimed that Jesus was a “sinner” by giving us His Body and Blood.

[LearnsFromMistakes]

I used a few simple verses, the words of Jesus, words in red. Nothing fancy, just laid out what the man said. Simple. Straight forward. He said what he meant and he meant what he said.

‘My’ theology was described as sophomoric, shallow, and drive-by. But none of it was ‘my’ words.

If this is an internet debate, I can’t compete against you. You have 2 thousand years of tradition and anecdotes of protestants who have converted to catholicism.

I will probably continue to try and represent Jesus’ view with his own words...if that makes my theology shallow and drive-by, so be it. I didn’t make up that it was wine, Jesus said it was. Does that mean nothing? Rhetorical question, I get that it is ‘shallow’ compared to the years of thought of learned men. But Jesus said ‘it is my blood’, then drank ‘fruit of the vine’. Seems significant to me, sophomoric to you.

[CynicalBear]

>>Catholics have never claimed that Jesus was a “sinner” by giving us His Body and Blood.<<

Um...duh!! It was God that said not to eat the blood and the Holy Spirit again in Acts 15.

[Salvation]

‘Bleeding’ Eucharist at Primary School in Moruga [Trinidad]
The Eucharistic Miracle of Lanciano, Italy (The Body and Blood of Christ) [Catholic Caucus]
Do You Believe in Eucharistic Miracles?
Eucharistic Miracle at St. Stephen's in New Boston MI.(Catholic Caucas)
[CATHOLIC CAUCUS] EUCHARISTIC MIRACLES

[CATHOLIC CAUCUS]'Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity': The Miracle and Gift of the Most Holy Eucharist
Looking After a Eucharistic Miracle (Franciscan Recounts His Special Mission in Siena)
Eucharistic Miracle: 2009?
Possible Eucharistic Miracle in Poland
The Eucharistic Miracles(Catholic Caucus)
Vatican display exhibits eucharistic miracles
Eucharistic Miracle - Bolsena-Orvieto, Italy
Physician Tells of Eucharistic Miracle of Lanciano -Verifies Authenticity of the Phenomenon
BLOOD TYPE FOUND IN ICONS IS SAME AS IN SHROUD OF TURIN AND 'LANCIANO MIRACLE'
Eucharistic Miracle: Lanciano,Italy-8th Century A.D.

[Steelfish]

These are also Jesus’ own words:

“Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you. “(John 6:53, Douay-Rheims Bible)

[CynicalBear]

These are God's own words.

"thou shalt not eat the blood"

[Salvation]

The Eucharist
The Eucharist: Foundation of the Christian Family(Catholic/Orthodox Caucus)
A Beautiful Summary of Eucharistic theology in an antiphon by Aquinas
Christ in the Eucharist (Ecumenical)
Canon Law and Consecrating the Eucharist (Catholic Caucus)
COMMUNION THROUGH A FEEDING TUBE (And More on Confirmations)
The Eucharist -- John 6
Catholicism and — The Eucharist
On the Giving and Receiving of Holy Communion: Some norms to recall [Catholic Caucus]
Catholic Word of the Day: HOLY COMMUNION, 05-19-12
Following the Truth: Recognizing Jesus In The Eucharist [Catholic Caucus]
The Fourth Cup
The Last Supper and the Forgiveness of Sins
Bread from Heaven: The Eucharist Sustains Us and Lifts Us Up [Catholic Caucus]
Essays for Lent: The Eucharist
Essays for Lent: The Mass
Excerpt from: The Didache (The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles) [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]
Divorced Catholics and the Eucharist
Following The Truth: So, You Just Received Jesus…Now What? (Catholic or Open)
The Coptic Orthodox doctrine of the Eucharistic sacrifice

Auxiliary Bishop Says Communion In the Hand is a Calvinist Novelty [Ecumenical]
How Something We Consider Solidly Traditional was Once Thought Progressive (Catholic)
Transubstantiation: Change We Can Believe In
Diocese limits Communion under both kinds, laments excessive extraordinary ministers
Phoenix Diocese to adopt new norms for Holy Communion [Catholic Caucus]
What Does GIRM 160 for the USA Really Say?
Lift the City - a Catholic Eucharistic flash mob (Catholic Caucus)
Justin Martyr: 1st apology: Sacraments, Eucharist {Catholic/Orthodox caucus}
The Institution of the Eucharist in Scripture [Catholic Caucus]
How the Mass is a sacrifice, and why so many deny this doctrine (Catholic/Orthodox Caucus)
[Ecumenical] Lent through Eastertide - Divine Mercy Diary Exerpts: Holy Communion and the Eucharist
Vatican consultant responds to Cardinal Mahoney ‘Christ gave Judas communion’ argument
New book connects the Eucharist with its Jewish roots
THE SACRAMENT OF THE EUCHARIST (sections 3 only) {Ecumenical Thread}
THE SACRAMENT OF THE EUCHARIST (sections 1&2 only) {Ecumenical Thread}
The Perfect Sacrifice: When Heaven Comes to Earth [Catholic Caucus]
The Real Presence [Church Fathers on the Holy Eucharist, cont'd ]
Is the Mass a Sacrifice? (Once and for all, Heb 9-10) {Catholic/Orthodox Caucus}
Radio Replies Second Volume - Holy Communion
The Real presence of Christ in the Eucharist {Catholic/Orthodox Caucus}

Radio Replies Second Volume - The Sacrifice of the Mass
Radio Replies Second Volume - Holy Eucharist
How Do We Prepare Well for the Coming of the Lord
Thanksgiving, the Prophets and the Eucharist
[CATHOLIC CAUCUS] The Pope of a Eucharistic Springtime
Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi, Lex Vivendi. As we Worship, So we Believe, So we Live
[CATHOLIC/ORTHODOX CAUCUS] 5th Luminous Mystery: Institution of the Eucharist (Patristic Rosary)
Wounded in the house of them that loved Me
[CATHOLIC / ORTHODOX CAUCUS] Eucharist is Jesus' greatest gift to us, teaches Pope Benedict XVI
[CATHOLIC CAUCUS] What makes Jesus present in the Eucharist: broadening one's view.
The Catholic Mass in 155 A.D.
Pope's Q--A at End of Priestly Year Pt 4 "We Celebrate,..Meditate..on Eucharist" [Catholic Caucus]
Sacrifice, Transubstantiation, and Real Presence (Pope Benedict XVI) [Catholic Caucus]
Catholic Caucus: Eucharist is the Heart of God
[CATHOLIC CAUCUS]'Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity': The Miracle and Gift of the Most Holy Eucharist
A Secular Eucharist
Paul and the Eucharist
Centered in the Eucharist
Centered in the Eucharist
Who Can Receive Communion? (Catholic Caucus)

Respect For Christ In The Eucharist – One Priest’s Perspective
From The Gospel To Life: The Disciples and the Eucharist
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Opportunities of Grace: The Eucharist: The Lord's Supper
THE PRIEST IN THE COMMUNION RITES - Liturgy Prepares for Reception of the Eucharist
Novena with Saint Peter Julian Eymard for Prayer in the Presence of the Blessed Sacrament [Prayer]
Boston Cardinal: Church Needs 'Clear' Injunction Denying Pro-Abortion Pols Communion
Benedict XVI calls priests to protect communion between God and man
Eucharist: Holy Sacrifice
Fr. Men: The Eucharist [Cath-Orth caucus]
Catholics in Costa Rica outraged by disrespect toward Eucharist [Catholic Caucus]
The Institution of the Eucharist in Scripture
St Anthony and the Real Presence
The Essentials of the Catholic Faith, Part Two: Channels of Grace: The Eucharist
EWTN - October 29 - 8PM - Fr. Antoine and the Eucharist
All Should Offer Their Bodies and Blood at Mass (Father Cantalamessa) [Catholic Caucus]
The Role of the Bishop of Rome in the Communion of the Church in the First Millennium
Radio Replies First Volume - Holy Eucharist
The Institution of the Eucharist in Scripture
Catholic Caucus: The Spiritual Combat Ch 54. MANNER IN WHICH WE OUGHT TO RECEIVE...BLESSED SACRAMENT
Catholic Caucus: The Spiritual Combat: Ch 53. CONCERNING THE MOST HOLY SACRAMENT OF THE EUCHARIST

A Few Texts From Saint Cyril of Jerusalem on the Eucharist
Catholic Devotional: On Visiting Jesus Christ In the Blessed Sacrament
The Early Christians Believed in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist
Focus on the Real Presence
A Chinese Girl-True Story That Inspired Bishop Fulton Sheen- Eucharist Adoration (Catholic Caucus)
Doubting Thomases(Eucharist); the Pitfalls of Folly(Catholic Caucus)
Rainbow sash-wearers prohibited from receiving [the Eucharist at Cathedral of St. Paul]
The significance of Holy Thursday (institution of the Eucharist and priesthood)
Our Lady of the Most Blessed Sacrament [Catholic Caucus]
The Catechism of St. Thomas Aquinas THE HOLY EUCHARIST
Holy Communion and Non-Catholics (with a Quiz!)
Beginning Catholic: The Eucharist: In the Presence of the Lord Himself [Ecumenical]
Beginning Catholic: Receiving the Lord in Holy Communion [Ecumenical]
Faithful Invited to Follow Pope, Adore Eucharist [Catholic Caucus]
Christmas and the Eucharist(Catholic/Orthodox Caucus)
Eucharist kneeling request sparks controversy [Catholic Caucus]
Eucharist vs. the Word (which is more important in the Catholic Church)
Christ the Miracle Worker in the Eucharist(Catholic Caucus)
Imitating Christ in the Eucharist(Catholic Caucus)
The Eucharist - the Lord's Sacrifice, Banquet and Presence (OPEN)

Pope Calls Eucharist History's Greatest Revolution [OPEN]
A Brief Catechism for Adults - Lesson 22: The Sacrament of the Holy Eucharist (Holy Communion)
A series of reflections from St. Peter Julian Eymard Blessed Sacrament(Catholic Caucus)
Eucharist, Holy Meal
Imitating Christ in the Eucharist
Christmas and the Eucharist
Prayer Before the Blessed Sacrament
This is My Body, This is My Blood
THE HOLY EUCHARIST IS THE WHOLE CHRIST
Gift Of Life, Gift Eternal: The Most Holy Eucharist and the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass
Area worshipers march to celebrate Holy Eucharist
Grace of the Eucharist is secret to holy priests, says Pope
The Disposition of Priests [Valid Mass, Valid Holy Eucharist?]
The Body of Christ?
Holy Sacrifice, Living Sacrament
Knights of the Eucharist
The Banquet of Corpus Christi - "Why did Jesus give us His Body and Blood?"
The Eucharist: Eternity and Time Together
Restored Order of the Sacraments of Initiation? Confirmation and First Eucharist together? (Vanity)
Reflections of Cardinal Ratzinger on the Eucharist

THE HOLY EUCHARIST: NOURISHMENT TO FINISH OUR COURSE
The Eucharist in Scripture - Part 1 - Old Testament
LITANY OF REPARATION TO OUR LORD IN THE BLESSED SACRAMENT
Benediction of the Blessed Sacrament
POPE GRANTS PLENARY INDULGENCE FOR YEAR OF THE EUCHARIST
New Plenary Indulgence to Mark Year of the Eucharist
Kneeling and Faith in the Eucharist
The Immaculate Conception and the Eucharist, a course in Christian culture in Tashkent
The Year of the Eucharist by Bishop Donald Wuerl
"While We're At It": What can we do to show that the Eucharist is a communal activity?
CATHOLICS AND BAPTISTS WITNESSED UNUSUAL IMAGES IN BLESSED SACRAMENT
The Discipline of the Eucharist Holy See Releases Redemptionis Sacramentum...
Vatican: Matters to be observed or to be avoided regarding the Most Holy Eucharist (April 23, 2004)
Devotion to the Holy Eucharist Advances Devotion to Jesus' Person
New rules on the Holy Eucharist on Holy Thursday
The Reverence due to the Holy Eucharist
The Holy Face of Jesus Christ as appeared on the Holy Eucharist
The Fourth Cup: The Sacrament of the Eucharist [Holy Thursday] [Passover]
Holy Father stresses Need of Devotion to Holy Eucharist outside of Mass: Pope Paul VI

[Steelfish]

See post 33:
Jesus’ own words.

And apparently all the great theologians Catholic and Protestants who converted to Catholicism, all got it wrong including Augustine, Aquinas, Newman, and Benedict XVI (called the “theological Einstein of our times”) !!!

[Salvation]

Video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcB7Uem00n4

[ADSUM]

Jesus told us to eat His Body and Blood. So that is not a sin but actually a grace from God.

Your personal fallible opinion denies the word of God and you reject what God tells us to do to gain eternal life with Him.

In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen.

Judica me,Deus, et discerne causam meam de gente non sancta: ab homine, et doloso erue me.

[LearnsFromMistakes]

I completely agree, as if I could not agree...

So now we have to collect the whole of what he said on the subject, and in a smaller part, take into consideration how he communicated in general.

Did he really say my body, my blood. Yup. Did he really eat his own body and drink his own blood. Says he did...yup.

Is that all that is said on the subject? Not quite. As others have pointed out, he would break the law if he drank blood, and would be asking his followers to do so also. Unless God was instituting a new law. Maybe that is what was happening here.

In many other places, he talked about being many things...door, vine, root, lion, lamb...gotta throw that into the mix. Not everything was literal.

The question to us - was he being literal here? I posted the verses I posted because Jesus himself said he wasn’t being literal - it was blood, then it was fruit of the vine. In one simple yet often overlooked phrase, he took away any confusion about drinking blood (and by association eating flesh).

At least this is how I study a topic. Search, compare, ask for wisdom, and make sure it lines up with what was said elsewhere in the bible. Read what others have to say, but in the end, it has to line up with ‘the word made flesh’.

[boatbums]

Yes, you are entitled to your own fallible opinion.