The Accounting of Simon Peter's Six Denials of Christ

Vanity | January 30, 2015 | self

[Elsie]

I guess different reporters report things differently.

...Peter did not demonstrate a saving loyalty to the Son of God...

I can admit to this as well at times in my life; too; but was I 'saved' during those times?

---

[Elsie]

Good screen name; and your tagline sums it up pretty well; too.

[Mom MD]

So Christ was wrong when abs prophesied Peter would deny Him 3 times? I’m going with Jesus on this one

[Elsie]

....ever learning and never being able to come to the knowledge of the truth...

That's quite an accusation; kinda Pilate-like:

[Elsie]

When we finish this little conundrum; we can tackle who; what and how many men, gardeners and/or angels were seen/listened to, by various numbers and names of women at the empty tomb that early morning.

[Elsie]

And you also are missing the point that Luke had verifiable eyewitnesses.

Stealthily arranged tests; using rooms full of 'eyewitnesses'; have shown that MANY differing accounts of the same event will come out under questioning those present.

[Elsie]

Maybe there were more roosters than just one.

[Elsie]

If you deny Christ as your Owner and Master when it becomes inconvenient, or about identification with Him even when your death may be the cost, Jesus says that you are not His, and He will deny you before His Father when the time comes to be judged as to your eternal disposition.

In wartime; under questioning by the enemy; holding onto the truth for dear life can lead to your death.

Abraham said, "She's my sister."

Rahab said, "I don't know which way they went."

[Elsie]

Hebrews 11:31 - By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.

 

Hebrews 11:17 - By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten [son],

[annalex]

It doesn’t “confirms six denials”.

[annalex]

Yup; and each such exercise would be pure speculation. Roosters, too.

[imardmd1]

It doesn’t “confirms six denials”.

Well, in fact, it does. And you must consult the precise Greek, not the ambiguous English uninspired translation, to get at the truth.

== The Chronology of Simon Peter's failure of association with Jesus, his denials ==

The Bible student easily recognizes that each Gospel is truthful throughout, but does not necessarily bear all the truth to be told, and while writing of simultaneous events, must keep the timelines of separate events discrete.

Furthermore, to achieve economy of translation, often inherently some nuances given by the original inspired infallible writings may be lost or blurred.

To arrive at all the truth the Spirit has given of any matter, it may be necessary to set the events in order to see how they progress, referring to the original writings as they were given, with a good lexicon at hand.

Considering Peter's behavior at the time Jesus was being judged for committing a capital crime, one must join all that is available in all the gospels in one continuous summary. This is done as follows:

Starting with the framework of Peter's disciple John Mark's Gospel narrative:

Mk. 14:54 And Peter followed him afar off, even into^{εις = a process} the palace^{αυλην - courtyard} of the high priest: and he sat with the servants, and warmed himself at the fire. 

The process by which Peter entered into the palace through a door was witnessed and authorized by John:

Jn. 18:15 And Simon Peter followed Jesus, and so did another disciple: that disciple was known unto the high priest, and went in with Jesus into the palace of the high priest.  Jn. 18:16 But Peter stood at the door without. Then went out that other disciple, which was known unto the high priest, and spake unto her that kept the door, and brought in Peter.
Jn. 18:17 Then saith^{to validate Peter's association with John} the damsel that kept the door unto Peter^{while standing}, Art not thou also one of this man's disciples^{accusation #1, not certain}? He saith, I am not. 

This process verified by Levi:

Mt. 26:58  But Peter followed him afar off unto the high priest's palace, and went in, and sat with the servants, to see the end. 

Then subsequently:

Mk. 14:55-65 (passage is about Jesus, not Peter)
Mk. 14:66  And as Peter was beneath in^{εν = completely within} the palace^{αυλη = courtyard}, there cometh one of the maids of the high priest: 
Mar 14:67  And when she saw Peter warming himself, she looked upon him, and said, And thou also wast with Jesus of Nazareth^{accusation #2, with certainty}. 
Matthew's gospel includes this woman's presence:

Mt. 26:69  Now Peter sat without^{beneath the upper trial chamber} in the palace^{αυλη = courtyard}: and a damsel came unto him, saying, Thou also wast with Jesus of Galilee^{accusation #2, with certainty}. 
Mt. 26:70  But he denied before them all, saying, I know not what thou sayest. 

Luke's Gospel also verifies this woman's testimony:

Lk. 22:55  And when they had kindled a fire in the midst of the hall, and were set down together, Peter sat down among them. 
Lk. 22:56  But a certain maid beheld him as he sat by the fire, and earnestly looked upon him, and said, This man was also with him^{accusation #2, with certainty}. 
Lk. 22:57  And he denied him, saying, Woman, I know him not.

Peter denied the accusation of this second woman:

Mk. 14:68_a-d  But he denied, saying, I know not, neither understand I what thou sayest. . . .

But a moment later and accompanying this second incident is a third:

Lk. 22:58  And ^justafter^{μετα = with, accompanying} a little_while^{βραχυ = (a) little (time)} another^{ετερος = another (servant) of a different kind, masculine} saw him, and said, Thou art also of them^{with certainty; accusation #3}. And Peter said, Man^{ανθρωπε = male human, vocative case}, I am not. 

Then Peter got up and went back out the door:

Mk. 14:68_e,f . . . And he went out into^{εις = a process} the porch^{προαυλιον = vestibule, alleyway}; and the cock crew^{crow #1}. 
Mk. 14:69  And a maid saw him again^{either the door-keeper, or the one who was more certain}, and began to say to them that stood by, This is one of them^{accusation #4}. 

Then, consecutively, another group of three incidents is reported:

Mk. 14:70_a  And he denied it again^{(a second time to the same female)}.

This incident is attested by Levi:

Mt. 26:71  And when he was gone out into the porch^{πυλωνα = vestibule outside the door}, another^{αλλη = a female servant of the same kind; here, the same one} maid saw him, and said unto them that were there, This fellow was also with Jesus of Nazareth^{accusation #4}.
Mt. 26:72  And again he denied with an oath, I do not know the man.

After that, another accusation is made:

Mk. 14:70_b-f And a little after, they that stood by said again to Peter, Surely thou art one of them: for thou art a Galilaean, and thy speech agreeth thereto. 

Levi and John, separated in their writings by about 50 years, say the same:

Mt. 26:73  And after a while came unto him they that stood by, and said to Peter, Surely thou also art one of them; for thy speech bewrayeth thee^{accusation #5}.

Jn 18:25 And Simon Peter stood and warmed himself. They said therefore unto him, Art not thou also one of his disciples?^{accusation #5} He denied it, and said, I am not.

After a hiatus of an hour, there is one more witness given by Luke and John, followed by the second crowing of the rooster:  

Lk. 22:59 And about the space of one hour after another^{of the same kind, masculine} confidently affirmed, saying, Of a truth this fellow also was with him: for he is a Galilaean^{accusation #6}. 
Lk. 22:60 And Peter said, Man^{ανθρωπε = male human; vocative case}, I know not what thou sayest. And immediately, while he yet spake, the cock crew^{crow #2}. 

Jn. 18:26 One of the servants of the high priest, being his kinsman whose ear Peter cut off, saith, Did not I see thee in the garden with him^{accusation #6}?  Jn. 18:27_a Peter then denied again:  

Mt. 26:74 Then began he to curse and to swear, saying, I know not the man. And immediately the cock crew^{crow #2}.

Mk. 14:71 But he began to curse and to swear, saying, I know not this man of whom ye speak. 

At that time Peter realizes his utter fallibility and true infidelity, and weeps through despair:

Jn. 18:27_b . . . and immediately the cock crew^{crow #2}.

Mt. 26:75  And Peter remembered the word of Jesus, which said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. And he went out, and wept bitterly. 

Mk. 14:72 And the second time the cock crew. And Peter called to mind the word that Jesus said unto him,
Before the cock crow twice, thou shalt deny me thrice.
And when he thought thereon, he wept.

==

In essence, a close examination of any reasonable translation makes the presence of at least four accusational instances involving two different females. at least one single male, and separately a group of males. At least four denials are required for those to be accounted for, but that would make Jesus' prophetic statements regarding Peter's infidelity false.

The only way to make His prophesies true is that they refer to two sets of three denials each, each set of three concluded by the crowing of a rooster, in separate sequential periods of time. Any other approach confutes the infallibility and verbal inspiration of scripture.

=============

And that is how it does.

Prove this false, if you can. And don't just give your opinion. Construct a narrative that makes all the Gospels agree, beyond any probability. Otherwise, don't trouble me or other readers with insupportable conjecture. Please.

[annalex]

I read Greek and my earlier posts were based on the original.

[imardmd1]

You have no construct that doesn’t devolve only on your opinion.

[imardmd1]

Neither of your responses had to do with fidelity to Jehovah or to Christ. These examples don’t count. But, Abraham did not lie, and Rahab misdirected murderers. Follow that through.

[imardmd1]

That involves fallible humans, not the infallible inspired words of the Holy Spirit. Please do not insult the clear meaning of the Scriptures which reinforce, not destroy each other.

[imardmd1]

Jesus first prophesied that Peter would deny him three times before the rooster crowed in the next 24 hours, and that was at the time of the Last Supper (John 13:38) when Peter claimed that he would lay down his life for Jesus, which was going to be exactly the reverse. Then, not believing Jesus, already displayimg his doubt as to Jesus' accuracy and rebuffing Him, Peter said it again as they were later on walking to Gethsemane (Luke 22:33-34; Mark 14:26,29-31), but Jesus doubled down on it and told him that Peter would deny him three more times before the second time that the (and the scripture says THE, meaming the same) rooster crows.

If you are going to stick your neck out and not in jest, make sure you know what scripture is saying.

Peter didn't, neither did he fully recognize the depth of his ignorance, his lack of loyalty, until it did happen AGAIN, three more times than when the first crow sounded out. Hmm?

[imardmd1]

I guess different reporters report things differently.

Not every reporter is writing inspired words. And the special revelation of the Holy Scriptures ceased a long time ago.

I can admit to this as well at times in my life; too; but was I 'saved' during those times?

Only God and you can know that, others can only guess.

Go ahead, open the can.

[imardmd1]

Furthermore, when is the last time you read the Code of Conduct for members of the U. S. Armed Forces? Do you know what the standards of that code are? Not less than the ones Peter wrongly claimed to be capable of at the time of the Crucifixion of Jesus, But he learned, didn’t he?

[imardmd1]

I read Greek and my earlier posts were based on the original.

They were? Prove it.