Posted on 01/24/2015 4:16:35 PM PST by ifinnegan
Here are artistic representations of two goddesses who are considered the Queen of Heaven and Goddesses.
The Buddhist/Taoist Kuan Yin (or Guan Yin) (觀音)
And
The Catholic depiction of Mary
Note the similarities in representation.
This relates to a thread last week on the leftover, or accretional pagan beliefs or rituals that are still present in the Catholic church.
The Goddess of Mercy is a universal idol/icon in pagan belief systems.
Your own Church changed the words who do you blame for that one?
Luke 1:28 New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)
28 And he came to her and said, “Greetings, favored one! The Lord is with you.”
Luke 1:28 Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (RSVCE)
28 And he came to her and said, “Hail, full of grace,[a] the Lord is with you!”
Footnotes:
a. Luke 1:28 Or O favored one
Is this one better or did the Reformation twist it too.
Luke 1:28 New Revised Standard Version, Anglicised Catholic Edition (NRSVACE)
28 And he came to her and said, ‘Greetings, favoured one! The Lord is with you.
Is this one better?
http://www.catholic.org/bible/book.php?id=49
28 He went in and said to her, ‘Rejoice, you who enjoy God’s favour! The Lord is with you.’
Maybe this one?
http://www.usccb.org/bible/luke/1
28And coming to her, he said, “Hail, favored one! The Lord is with you.”
Hey they Apostles are Jewish maybe this one was twisted by us Prots.
Lukas 1:28 Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)
28 And when the malach approached her, he said, Shalom, favored one! Hashem is with you!
Now lets compare Full of Grace as in Stephen in your Bible.
http://www.usccb.org/bible/acts/6
8* Now Stephen, filled with grace and power, was working great wonders and signs among the people.
http://www.catholic.org/bible/book.php?id=51&bible_chapter=6
8 Stephen was filled with grace and power and began to work miracles and great signs among the people.
Acts 6:8 Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (RSVCE)
The Arrest of Stephen
8 And Stephen, full of grace and power, did great wonders and signs among the people.
Acts 6:8 New Revised Standard Version, Anglicised Catholic Edition (NRSVACE)
The Arrest of Stephen
8 Stephen, full of grace and power, did great wonders and signs among the people.
So who’s right the Catholics or who’s wrong the Catholics?
You need to stop playing internet sophomore “theology”. Perhaps a course in 101Theology will help.
Go try reading the great works of Augustine, Newman (a Catholic convert who began the famous Oxford Movement that has led to Newman Centers in major universities) , Aquinas, or that of Benedict XVI.
Ttrust the early Church fathers who put together the various books in the Bible after decades of research under Petrine authority. These verses you cite from scripture did not fall from the skies. Various passages were sorted out and some were included and some not. The authority to do so was not plucked out of thin air. This was all done under Petrine authority, the authority to instruct ONE truth, ONE teaching to ONE Church for ALL times.
Not where every Tom, Dick and Harry or an Al Sharpton or Billy Graham or a David Koresh or Jm Jones has either the authority or the theological expertise to crack open the pages of the Bible and start quoting verses from here and there. That’s for neophytes.
Why don’t you ask Sweden’s Ulf Ekman, pastor of the its largest Protestant Church in that country who after several decades of intense Bible study, teaching, and preaching converted to Catholicism? Or try consulting the works of the late Rcichard Neuhaus who was by far the preeminent Lutheran theologian in the United States, a professor, author, and pastor who not only converted to Catholicism but became a Catholic priest.
Or if that’s not enough for you why not ask Francis Beckwith who served as president of the Evangelical Theological Society, an association of 4,300 Protestant theologians and after 32 years as an Evangelical scholar ditched their nonsense and returned to Catholicism?
Or try reading the writings and scholarship of Joshua Hochschild who was among the brightest of the faculty at Wheaton College and who converted to Catholicism.
These folks were “real” scholars and did not wallow in the shallow waters of Bible Christianity who tried playing cut-and-paste internet theologians.
There is ONE Church with ONE teaching (It’s called the CREDO). all the rest are heretical teachings emanating from the curse of Protestantism. No wonder the great British essayist Hillaire Belloc, wrote that unlike other heresies, Protestantism “spawned a cluster of heresies.” This is the low-IQ stuff peddled by corner street self appointed pastors of churches such as First Baptist, Second Baptist this or that or First AME... etc. Some of it with deadly consequences Just check with the deceased relatives of followers of Jim Jones and David Koresh. Protestant Kool-aid comes in various flavors.
Where Protestants will brag about preaching, "JC, Yo' Momma ain't squat"
Sure it does. Who was the Apostle chosen (and specifically re-named) by Jesus, separately granted the power to "bind and loose", and after the resurrection specifically charged by the risen Christ to "feed my sheep"?? And who was the first recognized Pope of the Catholic church...in Rome???
Pretty much the whole post-Pentecostal New Testament is about exactly that. Also see the "Apostles Creed" and "Nicean Creed" (one, holy, catholic and apostolic church).
But perhaps your particular flavor of schism has disavowed history as a source of evidence.
I rest my case.
"Instead of praying for Mary to intercede on their behalf with their INTERCESSOR Catholics would be better off simply following her advice."
Why do Protestants have such difficulty with Christians asking Mary to pray for them (this is what "intercession" amounts to), but not with, for instance, asking fellow Protestants to do so??
How do you know that they believed in the “perpetual virginity and assumption of Mary”?
None of the Apostles talked about her in their letters and no one began telling the converts to pray to her.
The assumption doctrine was not promulgated until the 4th century and wasn’t official Catholic dogma till 1950.
The “perpetual virginity” doctrine is of the same root as the adoration of statues, when the political side of the Catholic Church started absorbing pagan tribes and beliefs into the church, their statues of Isis and other Gods became statues of Mary and the saints. This also began being promulgated in the 4th Century and the Church leaders at the time had to force it on their followers by saying it was a necessary belief for salvation.
We know that goddess worship existed in many cultures in the ancient world (much prior to Christianity). From Semiramis to Astarte to Diana to Athena to Isis to Virgo to Virgo Durga to Ishtar (Easter).
“However, we do have ample evidence of the Pope of the Roman Catholic Church ordering the things done to non-catholics....”
Post those orders.
“for which the pope has yet to officially apologize for.”
When have Protestants ever apologized for what they did to Catholics?
“Nor has the office of inquisition been liquidated.”
Oh, an office still exists, but it has nothing of the authority it once used to so it has been liquidated in authority.
“Yes the name has changed, but the office remains.”
But it has almost none of the authority it once did.
“I suspect there are some in the rcc today that would love to re-open the inquisition. No doubt, there are some on this board that would love to do so.”
Absolutely, and there’s no reason not to. An office that investigates and fights heresy in the Church: nothing wrong with that.
“Borgia popes and their infamous henchman Torquemada”
The Borgia popes were in Italy. Torquemada was Spanish - and not in Italy. Torquemada became grand inquisitor in 1483. Only ONE of the Borgia popes was pope while Torquemada was head of the Spanish Inquisition - Alexander VI who was pope for 11 years - five of those years being after Torquemada died! And Alexander VI actually appointed other people to the inquisition in Spain in an effort to restrain the excesses that had developed under Torquemada.
“Erasmus said, after reading a Greek Bible, “Either this is not the Bible, or we are not Christians.”
Erasmus also said: “There is nothing I congratulate myself on more heartily than on never having joined a sect.” That leaves your sect out.
A lot of claiming on your part. I don’t see anything from the Bible, chapter and verse.
EVERYBODY will come before God.
And he will simply look to see if your name is written in the Book Of Life.
There won't be no lawyers. No judge Judy.
No one will be able to present their case.
It's simple either a persons name is in the Book or its not. For those who are not, every thought, every action, every attitude, will be exposed for what it truly is/was. There will be no laying on the mercy of the court. That is out here in life.
A person either chooses the atoning work of Christ and that alone, or they are condemned for eternity.
You seem to be projecting an awful lot into Protestants. But I'll stand before God, confident that my name is written in the Book. Based on NOTHING other than the redemptive work of Christ on the cross.
No church attendance.
No amount of prayers.
No amount of good deeds.
No following this dogma or that dogma.
You smugly assert what Protestants will do, thus projecting your real thoughts, that you yourself will brag to God about your belief and trust in Mary.
My confidence IS NOT in myself or my "beliefs", my confidence is in the promises of God in his Word and that he is faithful and true.
I'm going to be blunt and un PC here.
YOU
And EVERY other person on this thread are at a crossroad.
You are presented with the truth, that Christ ALONE, is the only way to God the father and His heaven. Trust in anyone or anything else, ie church, Mary, works is condemnation to hell.
Today, you have a choice.
Choose Christ ALONE.
Or choose your own way and go to hell.
There are no other choices and there are no other destinations.
Thumbs up.
I find this kind of amusing, ifinnegan posts a couple of depictions of what is known to be Queens of heaven, and every one starts making denials.
I am close to eighty years old and I have heard of Mary being called the Queen of heaven since I was ten.
A song called the deck of cards which came out in 1948 depicted Mary as the queen of heaven and since I had
already heard the phase I never even wondered about it.
I have loved that song ever since it came out, but it did not originate in 1948,it originated as far back as 1778 in Belgium and 1809 in France, and 1865 in the U.S.
If peoples faith is so weak that they can not look at the similarities and still stand firm with out all of the denials it is faith in something besides God.
This link will go to what is called
Queen of Heaven in Catholic art.
which shows that Mary has been called the queen of heaven by the Roman catholic Church since at least the 6th century.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_of_Heaven_in_Catholic_art
“accretional pagan beliefs ...”
Why do non catholics arrogantly assume they can explain catholic doctrine when they have no authority, no background in Church teaching, and no clue as to what the church actually teaches?
The premise that: (A) since the True Church recognizes the Blessed Mother (Luke 1:46-55)as the Mother of God: therefore (B) she is a goddess, is unsound (and childish) logic.
B (therefore Mary is a goddess) is invalid, so the conclusion is false.
The true premise is:
A - Jesus is God
B - Mary is the Mother of God
Therefore - C - Mary is the Mother of God. Valid conclusion.
The false premise that Mary somehow becomes a goddess if she is the mother of God presupposes that Jesus is not God - that is the only the way the first ridiculous premise would even work.
I recommend that that anyone believing that because Mary is the mother God therefore she is a goddess not take the LSAT.
Mary is in heaven, but she is not a goddess. See Apocalypse Chapter 12.
The Woman in 12 is the mother of all who keep the faith in Christ. The Woman is the chosen woman from the chosen race, Israel, so she can be a figure of Israel as well, but she is not Only the figure of Israel.
The most ancient interpretations (earliest Church Bishops and Fathers writings) have always interpreted the woman in the Apocalypse to be Mary. Later heretical protestants attempted to change the meaning of Apocalypse Chapter 12 to suit their own opinions/distorted interpretation of the bible. (as well as messing with the canon itself, buit that is another topic).
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