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To: metmom
"The Table of Contents? For real? Is that a good work I have to do? A sacrament I have to follow?"

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Without knowing what the contents of a book is going to be, one cannot make that book.

In other words, in order to make a book, you have to know which writings are going to go into that book, or you cannot make that book.

In order to make the "New Testament", they had to know which of the multitudes of the then-existing "writings", "gospels", "letters", etc., were going to be part of the "contents" of the New Testament, or they could not have made the New Testament.    Those contents to be selected were not specified anywhere, in any scriptures.    Those specific contents were all selected (out of many more that obviously existed) by men, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit (in "Church Councils").

If you don't understand how that was done, I urge you to read the following book:



"Where We Got the Bible... Our Debt to the Catholic Church" by Henry G. Graham

(And if you somehow think the list of writings which belong in the New Testament is contained in the Bible somewhere, tell me the Bible text(s) that list of writings is specified in.)

Do you think the Holy Spirit included a list somewhere in Scriptures which detailed which writings belong in the New Testament, or did God choose to use another means (external to the Scriptures) for having men select exactly which written documents belonged in the New Testament, and which written documents did not belong in the New Testament?

Don't you believe that the "New Testament" and its teachings are "critical for salvation and maturity in Christ"?

1,653 posted on 01/29/2015 9:02:31 PM PST by Heart-Rest ("Our hearts are restless, Lord, until they rest in Thee." - St. Augustine)
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To: Heart-Rest
Don't you believe that the "New Testament" and its teachings are "critical for salvation and maturity in Christ"?

I sure do!!

And I also believe you guys captured EVERYTHING we need in the NT as well!


If there is MORE; then why didn't the ECFs put the data in the BOOK when they had a chance?

Mary has to come along centuries later and CORRECT you guys??

Come on now...

1,694 posted on 01/30/2015 4:28:02 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Heart-Rest; metmom
Do you think the Holy Spirit included a list somewhere in Scriptures which detailed which writings belong in the New Testament, or did God choose to use another means (external to the Scriptures) for having men select exactly which written documents belonged in the New Testament, and which written documents did not belong in the New Testament?

Do you think the Holy Spirit would not have provided a means to the fledgling church to discern what was from God and what was not? The Apostle Paul wrote in his letter to the church at Thessaloniki:

    If anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of that person and do not associate with him, so that he will be put to shame. Yet do not regard him as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother. (2 Thess. 3:14-15)

    In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers and sisters, to keep away from every believer who is idle and disruptive and does not live according to the teaching you received from us. (2 Thess. 3:6)

To the Roman churches, Paul wrote:

    For whatever was written in earlier times was written for our instruction, so that through perseverance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope. (Romans 15:4)

The Apostle John, in his epistle, cautioned believers:

    Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting; for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds. (2 John 1:9-11)

There are many other passages that teach the same thing so it is not at all difficult to see that there was a growing recognition and acceptance of the writings of the Apostles and their disciples as sacred Scripture. Believers were held responsible to ensure these writings were copied, distributed AND obeyed - much like the ancient Jews unto whom were entrusted the "Oracles of God". It was the job of the "church" leaders to make sure this happened, but it was certainly not their job to dictate to the Apostles which writings they would receive or not. Notice Paul warned them to withdraw fellowship from those who refused to receive the teachings and instructions they were given. That doesn't sound to me like the church had the "authority" to make such choices. That they refused to accord the same recognition to spurious writings later on, is a testimony of the sound teaching they had been given from Jesus' hand-chosen disciples who were to build His church.

I know this may make some Roman Catholics' heads explode, but the church at that time is every bit a part of the legacy of ALL genuine Christians as it is claimed exclusively by the Roman Catholic church. It doesn't matter what ones church is identified as just as long as the teachings they hold are backed up by the same rule of faith as that given at the start. Whatever "debt" is thought owed to the Catholic church, we know that the true glory goes to Almighty God who has never left us without the knowledge of the truth. If a church cannot prove their doctrines by God's one and only OBJECTIVE rule of faith - the Holy Scriptures - then they are not binding upon all Christians, no matter what they may claim is their history.

1,764 posted on 01/30/2015 2:45:02 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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