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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
Excuse me, but the portion you have put in bold says exactly "although he may press the sacrament of the body and blood of Christ carnally and visibly with his teeth".

The wicked man therefore does not "eat" Jesus' body and blood in the Eucharist precisely because he doesn't believe! One must have faith first (as Augustine says) before one can receive Christ. Once one has faith, then one receives Christ.

The wicked has no faith, therefore, partaking of the Sacrament is, not only no effect, but actually damns the man, because it's defying the Word of God (Jesus, the Body of Christ) in the Eucharist.

I don't know how else I can put it.

Faith first in Jesus is what's required. In fact, this flows from how I didn't "avoid" your claim about "'eating' Christ 'already' even before readying teeth and stomach", it's actually you who have avoided answering my reply, again, located here: http://freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3250227/posts?page=146#146

I said again, "Here then we can clearly see the context that St. Augustine is speaking in, which is that first, belief in Jesus is required for Salvation! When the Saint speaks "believe, and you have eaten already", he is not speaking about the Eucharist, rather, what Augustine is saying here is that the Jews must seek after Jesus first, believe in Him first, not seeking after any carnal "bread" that just filled their bellies. Remember, they (the crowd) were just filled by the miracle of the loaves and the fishes at this time, and Jesus knew that they were following Him around because they sought a man who would always do this for them (John 6:26). "

So belief in Him is required first, and to stress the importance of this belief, this faith in Christ that is all important, Augustine said "believe, and you have eaten already" meaning, do not even seek after food itself to fill the belly before seeking Christ Himself, in other words Faith in Christ is more important than even food, or, do not seek Christ to be some filler of your belly, to give you "bread" to fill your belly and keep you "alive" here on earth, rather He will give us Bread that will give us eternal life if you believe in Him first. And that is what is most important, not food, but Christ. So "believe in Him, and you have eaten already"

This is the proper context of that passage from Tractate 25 (paragraph 12), which then gives the proper context of Tractate 26, and beyond.

First believe in Christ, then you can receive the Body of Christ in the Eucharist. If you don't believe, you not only don't receive Christ (don't 'eat' Christ as Augustine puts it), but you also "eat and drink the sacrament" (again a symbol and also that which it symbolizes) "of so great a thing to [your] own judgment" Tractate 26, paragraph 18.

Anyone should really read all of the tractates for themselves, and really wonder: Does this man sound more like a Catholic, or a Protestant.

Here:

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/1701.htm

187 posted on 01/24/2015 6:18:34 PM PST by FourtySeven (47)
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To: FourtySeven; All
So belief in Him is required first, and to stress the importance of this belief, this faith in Christ that is all important, Augustine said "believe, and you have eaten already" meaning, do not even seek after food itself to fill the belly before seeking Christ Himself,

It's difficult to discern what you are saying here. Augustine is not speaking of any bread, but of the bread that comes down from heaven (Himself), which is eaten and drank by faith without any physical eating. If Christ is speaking of how it is we eat him, and if eating the eucharist is eating Him (as you hold), and is necessary to receive Him as it is "through" it that we receive Him, then this is problematic for you:

“Wherefore, the Lord, about to give the Holy Spirit, said that Himself was the bread that came down from heaven, exhorting us to believe in Him. For to believe in Him is to eat the living bread. He that believes eats; he is sated invisibly, because invisibly is he born again. A babe within, a new man within. Where he is made new, there he is satisfied with food. (12) What then did the Lord answer to such murmurers? Murmur not among yourselves. As if He said, I know why you are not hungry, and do not understand nor seek after this bread. Murmur not among yourselves: no man can come unto me, except the Father that sent me draw him. Noble excellence of grace! No man comes unless drawn. There is whom He draws, and there is whom He draws not; why He draws one and draws not another, do not desire to judge, if you desire not to err.” (Augustine, Tractate 26)

Therefore it is not true that Augustine is saying "do not even seek after food itself to fill the belly before seeking Christ Himself," but is explaining how it is that we eat Christ. And this is accomplished not through the eucharist, but through faith "without teeth and stomach." Thus the eating of Christ for salvation through faith is distinct from the eating of the Lord's Supper.

I also like how Augustine gives the Calvinistic reading of the verses therein, and thus denies universal grace.

194 posted on 01/24/2015 6:36:21 PM PST by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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