Posted on 01/24/2015 8:33:46 AM PST by RnMomof7
“LOL ... So did Jesus preach what the authors of the “gospels “ told Him to?”
I trust Jesus. So do you I’m sure.
After the apostles died, was the gospel hopelessly lost until the Reformation?
Your answer did not address the comment.
Show us where any Protestants taught that the gospel was hopelessly lost until the Reformation.
Building strawmen to know down doesn’t give you any credibility.
The Reformers themselves (including Luther, Zwingli, Calvin, and others) were convinced that their position was not only biblical, but also historical. In other words, they contended that both the apostles and the church fathers would have agreed with them on the heart of the gospel.
Can't wait to read the comments on this thread!
“Strange. But beyond strange.”
A pious, faithful person falling victim to vanity and temptation? Not strange at all. Happens quite often. Look at King David. A man after God’s own heart. . . who then committed adultery and murder.
Know down = knock down..
“The comment was.....
After the apostles died, was the gospel hopelessly lost until the Reformation? Your answer did not address the comment.”
I didn’t post an answer at all. I made a comment. An answer would have been in response to a question not in response to a comment.
“Show us where any Protestants taught that the gospel was hopelessly lost until the Reformation.”
Look it up yourself. Anti-Catholics here have made the claim themselves. That view is part and parcel of the 19th century restoration movement - which was entirely Protestant. Mormons didn’t invent that view either. They adopted it from Protestants. It was - and is - common. Look it up yourself. I’m sure you can do it.
RnMomof7 - Thank you for posting this excellent article.
Salvation, I think you and RnMomof7 are actually in agreement. RnM is saying that those modern Protestants who reject the writings of the church fathers and that the gospels were ‘figuratively lost’ (my terminology) between 100 AD and Martin Luther, are wrong.
See also this comment by Vladimir998’s post #16.
“Building strawmen to know down doesn’t give you any credibility.”
I built no straw men. What you consider gives me or doesn’t me credibility is as irrelevant as most of your comments are.
Yet a novice with visions held a Roman Catholic community in demonic delusion for 40 years. When the big red flag should have been for the bishop that a woman claimed a virgin birth and the child was claimed to be Christ born a second time?
And today in the 21st century a Catholic mystic site keeps her testimony next to others they uphold? They also make the claim they are faithful to Catholic teachings?
I believe the reference here is to the gospel truth, not the the written canonical Gospels.
The whole Bible is the gospel? Is that just a comment to evade answering the question RnMomof7 asked?
great post!!! thanks
“When the big red flag should have been for the bishop that a woman claimed a virgin birth and the child was claimed to be Christ born a second time?”
And Judas traveled with the Apostles for three years and none of them knew he was a ‘devil’.
“And today in the 21st century a Catholic mystic site keeps her testimony next to others they uphold?”
Did you see why they do it?
“They also make the claim they are faithful to Catholic teachings?”
Again, did you see why they do it? You didn’t read it did you? Then you missed the whole point. Here it is:
“For sure another one of the spiritual lessons is that all that glitters is not necessarily gold, and the devil does not counterfeit tin or copper, or even silver-—he seeks to counterfeit gold. So we need to be very careful, with the help of God, not to be misled by his phony deceptions.”
It gets worse. An excerpt from the Secret of the Rosary, endorsed by Popes. It is giving examples of how the rosary has benefited mortals, in this case speaking first of some king who was saved by it:
“One day the King fell seriously ill and when he was given up for dead he found himself, in a vision, before the judgement seat of Our Lord. Many devils were there accusing him of all the sins he had committed and Our Lord as Sovereign Judge was just about to condemn him to hell when Our Lady appeared to intercede for him. She called for a pair of scales and had his sins placed in one of the balances whereas she put the rosary that he had always worn on the other scale, together with all the Rosaries that had been said because of his example. It was found that the Rosaries weighed more than his sins.
Looking at him with great kindness Our Lady said: “As a reward for this little honor that you paid me in wearing my Rosary, I have obtained a great grace for you from my Son. Your life will be spared for a few more years. See that you spend these years wisely, and do penance.”
When the King regained consciousness he cried out: “Blessed be the Rosary of the Most Holy Virgin Mary, by which I have been delivered from eternal damnation!”
After he had recovered his health he spent the rest of his life in spreading devotion to the Holy Rosary and said it faithfully every day.
People who love the Blessed Virgin out to follow the example of King Alphonsus and that of the saints whom I have mentioned so that they too may win other souls for the Confraternity of the Holy Rosary. They will then receive great graces on earth and eternal life later on. “They that explain me shall have life everlasting life.” [1] Ecclus. 24:31”
Another story on how saying rosaries can earn you salvation, also from the 'secret of the rosary.' This time the story revolves around a woman who thought, because of her holiness, that the rosary was not necessary for salvation. I begin my quote part way through:
“Later on, when she was at prayer she fell into ecstasy and had a vision of her soul appearing before the Supreme Judge. Saint Michael put all her penances and to her prayers on one side of the scale and all her sins and imperfections on the other. The tray of her good works were greatly outweighed by that of her sins and imperfections.
Filled with alarm, she cried out for mercy, imploring the help of the Blessed Virgin, her gracious advocate, who took the one and only Rosary she had said for her penance and dropped it on the tray of her good works. This one Rosary was so heavy that it weighed more than all her sins as well as her good works. Our Lady then reproved her for having refused to follow the counsel of her servant Dominic and for not saying the Rosary every day.
As soon as she came to herself she rushed and threw herself at the feet of Saint Dominic and told him all that had happened, begged his forgiveness and promised to say the Rosary faithfully every day. By this means she rose to Christian perfection and finally to the glory of everlasting life.”
http://www.rosary-center.org/secret.htm
Popes on the “sure and most efficacious means” for help from heaven:
“We constantly seek for help from Heaven - the sole means of effecting anything - that our labours and our care may obtain their wished for object. We deem that there could be no surer and more efficacious means to this end than by religion and piety to obtain the favour of the great Virgin Mary, the Mother of God, the guardian of our peace and the minister to us of heavenly grace, who is placed on the highest summit of power and glory in Heaven, in order that she may bestow the help of her patronage on men who through so many labours and dangers are striving to reach that eternal city. Now that the anniversary, therefore, of manifold and exceedingly great favours obtained by a Christian people through the devotion of the Rosary is at hand, We desire that that same devotion should be offered by the whole Catholic world with the greatest earnestness to the Blessed Virgin, that by her intercession her Divine Son may be appeased and softened in the evils which afflict us. And therefore We determined, Venerable Brethren, to despatch to you these letters in order that, informed of Our designs, your authority and zeal might excite the piety of your people to conform themselves to them.” (ENCYCLICAL OF POPE LEO XIII ON DEVOTION OF THE ROSARY)
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/leo_xiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_01091883_supremi-apostolatus-officio_en.html
A decree to perform them:
“We decree and order that in the whole Catholic world, during this year, the devotion of the Rosary shall be solemnly celebrated by special and splendid services. From the first day of next October, therefore, until the second day of the November following, in every parish and, if the ecclesiastical authority deem it opportune and of use, in every chapel dedicated to the Blessed Virgin - let five decades of the Rosary be recited with the addition of the Litany of Loreto.” (SUPREMI APOSTOLATUS OFFICIO, ENCYCLICAL OF POPE LEO XIII ON DEVOTION OF THE ROSARY)
The importance of the Rosary to a Pope:
“With these words, dear brothers and sisters, I set the first year of my Pontificate within the daily rhythm of the Rosary. Today, as I begin the twenty-fifth year of my service as the Successor of Peter, I wish to do the same. How many graces have I received in these years from the Blessed Virgin through the Rosary: Magnificat anima mea Dominum! I wish to lift up my thanks to the Lord in the words of his Most Holy Mother, under whose protection I have placed my Petrine ministry: Totus Tuus!” (ROSARIUM VIRGINIS MARIAE OF THE SUPREME PONTIFF JOHN PAUL II)
Obviously, when you have Mary depicted as being more merciful and knowledgeable than the son, and devotion to her specifically saving this person from the punishment of Christ, you’ve another rival deity who is more approachable, foresighted and merciful than Christ Himself. You also deny Christ’s work on the cross.
Compare this with the Church Fathers above, who place salvation not into the hands of Mary or the rosary, but in Christ alone.
Wonderful! Thank-you and God Bless!
Salvation is right: the whole Bible is the gospel message.
The simple fact is that gospel can be used to refer to different things.
As Protestant J. Hampton Keathley III delineates:
(1) The gospel of Jesus Christ (Mark 1:1; 1 Cor. 9:12) and the gospel of His Son (Rom. 1:9). These two descriptions speak of the good news of salvation that comes through the person and work of Jesus Christ who is the very Son of God in human flesh. Again, this is a good news of deliverance from sin’s penalty, power and presence through the two advents of Christ.
(2) The gospel of the grace of God (Acts 20:24) emphasizes that salvation in all of its aspects is on the basis of grace rather than on some meritorious system of works.
(3) The gospel of the kingdom (Matt. 4:23; 9:35; 24:14) is the good news that God will establish His kingdom on earth through the two advents of the Lord Jesus Christ.
(4) The gospel of peace (Eph. 6:15) describes how this good news of salvation in Christ brings peace in all its many aspects (peace with God, the peace of God, peace with others, and world peace) through the victory accomplished by the Savior.
(5) The eternal or everlasting gospel (Rev. 14:6) expands our perspective of gospel as we normally think of it. This gospel as proclaimed by the angel has several key elements of gloriously good news that are developed in three commands and two reasons...
The same Protestant author goes on to point out:
Popular Notions
Limit the Meaning of the Gospel
Popular notions about the term ‘gospel’ tend to limit it to the message of how one may receive eternal life through faith in Christ, but it is much broader than that. For instance, Paul says in Romans 1:16-17, “For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is God’s power for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For the righteousness of God is revealed in the gospel from faith to faith, just as it is written, “the righteous by faith will live.” But by using the term “gospel” here, Paul is not...
His conclusion?
“Conclusion
“In summary, what is the gospel? It is the message of the good news of salvation, the word of truth offered to mankind by grace through faith in the finished work of Christ on the cross. It is a message not only of eternal life, but one that encompasses the total plan of God to redeem people from the ravages of sin, death, Satan, and the curse that now covers the earth.”
I did read the entire piece. The point is one can address error without waiting to the final few paragraphs.
The message is no doubt that she gave a bad name to mystics having the same or similar experiences.
So when Paul says “But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed” we can consider the Catholic Church accursed because the apostles didn’t teach about the assumption of Mary!
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