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Pagan Saints
The Cripplegate ^ | July 19,2012 | Nathan Busenitz

Posted on 01/21/2015 4:47:04 PM PST by RnMomof7

As a church history professor, I am sometimes asked how certain practices developed in church history. For example: When did the Roman Catholic (and Eastern Orthodox) emphasis on praying to saints and venerating relics and icons begin?

A somewhat obscure, but extremely helpful, book by John Calvin answers that question directly.

In his work, A Treatise on Relics, Calvin utilizes his extensive knowledge of church history to demonstrate that prayers to the saints, prayers for the dead, the veneration of relics, the lighting of candles (in homage to the saints), and the veneration of icons are all rooted in Roman paganism. Such practices infiltrated the Christian church after Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire in the fourth century.

Here is an excerpt from Calvin’s work that summarizes his thesis:

Hero-worship is innate to human nature, and it is founded on some of our noblest feelings, — gratitude, love, and admiration, — but which, like all other feelings, when uncontrolled by principle and reason, may easily degenerate into the wildest exaggerations, and lead to most dangerous consequences. It was by such an exaggeration of these noble feelings that [Roman] Paganism filled the Olympus with gods and demigods, — elevating to this rank men who have often deserved the gratitude of their fellow-creatures, by some signal services rendered to the community, or their admiration, by having performed some deeds which required a more than usual degree of mental and physical powers.

The same cause obtained for the Christian martyrs the gratitude and admiration of their fellow-Christians, and finally converted them into a kind of demigods. This was more particularly the case when the church began to be corrupted by her compromise with Paganism [during the fourth and fifth-centuries], which having been baptized without being converted, rapidly introduced into the Christian church, not only many of its rites and ceremonies, but even its polytheism, with this difference, that the divinities of Greece and Rome were replaced by Christian saints, many of whom received the offices of their Pagan predecessors.

The church in the beginning tolerated these abuses, as a temporary evil, but was afterwards unable to remove them; and they became so strong, particularly during the prevailing ignorance of the middle ages, that the church ended up legalizing, through her decrees, that at which she did nothing but wink at first.

In a footnote, Calvin gives specific examples of how Christians saints simply became substitutes for pagan deities.

Thus St. Anthony of Padua restores, like Mercury, stolen property; St. Hubert, like Diana, is the patron of sportsmen; St. Cosmas, like Esculapius, that of physicians, etc. In fact, almost every profession and trade, as well as every place, have their especial patron saint, who, like the tutelary divinity of the Pagans, receives particular hours from his or her protégés.

You can read the entire work on Google Books.

Calvin’s treatment includes a historical overview, quotes from the church fathers, and even citations from sixteenth-century Roman Catholic scholars. The result is an air-tight case for the true origin of many Catholic practices.

Calvin’s conclusion is that these practices are nothing more than idolatrous superstitions, rooted in ancient Roman paganism. Even today, five centuries later, his work still serves as a necessary warning to those who persist in such idolatry. Hence his concluding sentence: “Now, those who fall into this error must do so willingly, as no one can from henceforth plead ignorance on the subject as their excuse.”


TOPICS: Apologetics; General Discusssion; Mainline Protestant; Theology
KEYWORDS: canonization; catholic; catholicbashing; idoltery; reformation
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To: stonehouse01; RnMomof7
the Hebrew people venerated relics.

Absolutely not. It is specifically prohibited. Especially dead things.

241 posted on 01/22/2015 9:14:39 AM PST by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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To: Arthur McGowan; Mark17; metmom; boatbums; daniel1212; imardmd1; CynicalBear; Resettozero; ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catherine_Labour%C3%A9

Ummm some "Doctor" of the church

Even if the Pope were Satan incarnate, we ought not to raise up our heads against him, but calmly lie down to rest on his bosom. He who rebels against our Father is condemned to death, for that which we do to him we do to Christ: we honor Christ if we honor the Pope; we dishonor Christ if we dishonor the Pope. I know very well that many defend themselves by boasting: "They are so corrupt, and work all manner of evil!" But God has commanded that, even if the priests, the pastors, and Christ-on-earth were incarnate devils, we be obedient and subject to them, not for their sakes, but for the sake of God, and out of obedience to Him. (St. Catherine of Siena)

242 posted on 01/22/2015 9:17:35 AM PST by RnMomof7 (Ga 4:16)
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To: mrobisr

YEP


243 posted on 01/22/2015 9:21:02 AM PST by RnMomof7 (Ga 4:16)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas
Luther? He invented Sola Scriptura, which isn’t biblical or historical.

I don't know how you can say that with a straight face when documentation is being posted that shows the earliest church fathers believed in 'scripture alone'...

244 posted on 01/22/2015 9:27:04 AM PST by Iscool
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To: Salvation; CynicalBear
Not true since you don’t take into account the history of the Early Church when the first martyrs died.

HUH? What does that have to do with sainthood? Where is canonization modeled for us in the NT ?

245 posted on 01/22/2015 9:27:06 AM PST by RnMomof7 (Ga 4:16)
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To: RnMomof7

I once knew a Kathy from Sonoma, but she was no saint.

Sounds like St. Catherine of Siena was into bondage and stuff and liked men in odd clothing telling her what to do with no questions asked. What a gal she must have been!


246 posted on 01/22/2015 9:29:33 AM PST by Resettozero
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To: RnMomof7
But God has commanded that, even if the priests, the pastors, and Christ-on-earth were incarnate devils, we be obedient and subject to them, not for their sakes, but for the sake of God, and out of obedience to Him. (St. Catherine of Siena)

And they don't veer from that either...But I don't recollect God saying that...

247 posted on 01/22/2015 9:32:04 AM PST by Iscool
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To: Iscool
Supposedly many early Catholic documents are cited by Eusebius...Those documents don't exist but we are to trust that the Catholic Eusebius, Constantine's right hand man gave us the real history.

Thanks for the minute refresher course. Chain of evidence not only has been destroyed, it may never have been true evidence at all.
248 posted on 01/22/2015 9:34:04 AM PST by Resettozero
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To: Iscool; CynicalBear
Without those forgeries, they don't have a religion...

And that, in the end, causes ALL of the church fathers to be suspect, especially those which are foundational (400AD and earlier). The forgeries and inclusions, by and large, are designed to bolster the Roman church's position - To create a history, a precedent. That speaks to it being institutional. purposeful. How can any of it be trusted?

249 posted on 01/22/2015 9:35:05 AM PST by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas
Luther? He invented Sola Scriptura, which isn’t biblical or historical.

Martin Luther was a Catholic. Sola Scriture has been claimed as a valid Catholic description for Catholic understanding. The idea of believing the Word of God alone predates the RCC.
250 posted on 01/22/2015 9:39:00 AM PST by Resettozero
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To: Iscool

Interesting how the origins of the Catholic Church invariably lead to Constantine. Interesting that.


251 posted on 01/22/2015 9:39:53 AM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: Arthur McGowan; Iscool
>>But the accusation from Protestants has always been that people WERE praying to saints.<<

Um, here's a quote from the article.

"Such practices infiltrated the Christian church after Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire in the fourth century."

It's prior to that point that people are asking for proof of the practice from.

252 posted on 01/22/2015 9:41:20 AM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: CynicalBear

Thank you.

It simply amazes me how religion can takes something so wonderfully simple as the Word of God and create such a mess.


253 posted on 01/22/2015 9:44:36 AM PST by Kandy Atz ("Were we directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we should soon want for bread.")
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To: roamer_1
How can any of it be trusted?

Many RCC-owned buildings are ornate and awe-inspiring, the clothing of the heirarchy is magnificent, their art collection is probably unparalled in all the earth, the pagan rituals and traditional customs are practiced sort of under the auspices of Christianity some weird how, but mostly Mary and the church leaders get all the attention nowadays.

Trust? Well, it's only one's immortal soul that's at stake. And a whole lotta mammon.
254 posted on 01/22/2015 9:47:41 AM PST by Resettozero
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To: Resettozero

Right... KaChing...


255 posted on 01/22/2015 9:55:01 AM PST by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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To: RnMomof7

I thought that name sounded familiar. I was excoriated for bringing that up a while back and now to have one of their own put her forth as an example is just precious.


256 posted on 01/22/2015 10:28:30 AM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: RnMomof7
>>HUH?<<

That was my first thought as well.

257 posted on 01/22/2015 10:32:06 AM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: roamer_1; Iscool

Oh what a tangled web they weave.


258 posted on 01/22/2015 10:33:16 AM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: RnMomof7
Even if the Pope were Satan incarnate, we ought not to raise up our heads against him, but calmly lie down to rest on his bosom. He who rebels against our Father is condemned to death, for that which we do to him we do to Christ: we honor Christ if we honor the Pope; we dishonor Christ if we dishonor the Pope. I know very well that many defend themselves by boasting: "They are so corrupt, and work all manner of evil!" But God has commanded that, even if the priests, the pastors, and Christ-on-earth were incarnate devils, we be obedient and subject to them, not for their sakes, but for the sake of God, and out of obedience to Him. (St. Catherine of Siena)

Just imagine if somehow someone wrote a note like that to Paul in the 1st Century. Oh, that's right there was no pope back then.

259 posted on 01/22/2015 10:58:37 AM PST by redleghunter (Your faith has saved you. Go in peace. (Luke 7:50))
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To: redleghunter

This is the way of all “religion.” If it ever was about God, it slides down to a self-justifying system about men.

Rest on just whose bosom... good grief! And this has been the vigorous Reformation cry: Yes honor even a pope as a Christian (if he is). But always always always trust and hope in Christ first.


260 posted on 01/22/2015 11:07:43 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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