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To: Resettozero; CynicalBear; Elsie; mrobisr

Since there is a commonality with you all, I hope you don’t mind my answering you collectively. On a side note, if any of you made a physical effort to go hear a preacher preach the Gospel, which caused you to make a committment to Christ; shame on you for making a physical effort in order to be saved /sarc.

The main question has been a list of water baptisms found in Acts. Answers to other questions are intertwined. If I missed some, I will try to get to them (I am quite swamped away from the pc). Here they are, all from the KJV:

In Acts 2:37 (Jews) we find convicted souls asking, “what shall we do?”

Your answer seems to be, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved”. But no details, such as HOW to believe, contrary to what the Lord and his apostles specifically commanded.

2:38; “Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost”. (note the position of the commas in the KJV.)

Now, I will list the separate DETAILED accounts of water baptism:

8:12,13 (Samaritans) “But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip...”.

Notice they ‘believed, and were baptized’. (sounds like fulfillment of the the Lord’s command in Mark 16:16; “He that believeth, and is baptized..”). They had NOT received the Spirit yet. Peter and John were then called to come to Samaria:

8:16; “(For as yet he was fallen upon NONE of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)”

The Ethiopian eunuch: 8:35-38; “Then Philip....preached unto him Jesus. And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See here is WATER; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down INTO the WATER, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.” (first detailed witness mentioning water used in baptism).

10:46,47,48 (Gentiles) “...Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid WATER, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the NAME of the Lord...”. (care to guess what that name is? AND, remember these words of Peter: “Can any man forbid water..”. That is the second detailed witness mentioning water baptism).

In Acts 11 we find Peter back in Jerusalem, after the conversion event at Cornelius’ house in Caesarea, testifying of their receiving the Holy Ghost. With God giving them the Spirit, his hand was forced to obey God’s ordained plan, and baptize them in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins. Notice his testamony at that point:
11:17; “Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; WHAT WAS I, THAT I COULD WITHSTAND GOD?”.

God expected Peter to do HIS part, and baptise them in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission sins. Peter HAD to do it, for it was required by God.

Under your ‘no works’ opinion, those souls were completely born again after the Spirit fell, so Peter had NOTHING to withstand. Also, he could have refused to baptize them. But knew he couldn’t withstand God’s command, for notice his words; “Can any man forbid water..”.

Re-baptism in Ephesus: 19:5,6 “When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.”

(OOPS! Paul baptized ‘about twelve’ people, when he ‘wasn’t sent to baptize’. /sarc. 1Cor. 1:17 is a declaration by Paul, telling us that his ministry was not just baptism. Otherwise, he wouldn’t have baptized ANYBODY)

Now, the list of the brief mentioning of baptisms. You may argue that those are ‘Spirit’ baptisms only. Can you prove that? I say they are water baptisms, or both (and Paul is involved in all but the first of them):

Acts 2:41 about 3,000 were added.
9:18 Saul/Paul’s conversion.
16:15 Lydia and her household.
16:33 keeper of the prison and his household.
18:8 Crispus (one of several Paul admitted to baptizing in Corinth. 1Cor 1:14,16)
22:16 Saul/Paul again.( did Paul have to ‘arise’ to receive the Spirit?...that sounds like ‘works’./sarc)

Now, the references to baptism in the epistles, which were written to those already born again (note the intro to those letters; ‘brethern’, ‘faithful’, ‘saints’, etc. Like it or not, that’s the context).

Romans 6:3; “Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?”
4. “Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:....” (That’s certainly not Spirit baptism, because the Spirit is life.) “..that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the GLORY of the FATHER, even so we also should walk in newness of life.” 5 “For if we have been planted together in the LIKENESS of his death, we shall be also in the LIKENESS of his resurrection.”

Col. 2:12 is quite similar: “Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the operation of God, who raised him from the dead.”

Buried,...planted.....That sure is clear to me: Paul is referring to water baptism, and Spirit baptism, as separate events, and that both are required.

1Cor. 1:12-17
Now is as good of a time as any to address the inconsistancies of the ‘water baptism is not essential’ folks, which I will call the ‘discount crowd’:

When faced with passages that mention baptism, but don’t specifically say that it was water baptism, the discount crowd will say it’s not talking about water baptism. But, when faced with the passage in 1Cor. 1:12-17, then they wholehearted agree that it is referring to water baptism.

(I have just taken the afore mentioned Acts 18:8 (Crispus), and solidly put that passage in the water baptism category.)

Then there is the emphasis on the name, which Paul makes clear to be Jesus: 1Cor. 1:13 “Is CHRIST divided? was PAUL crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the NAME of Paul?”
(Yes, Paul baptized in water at Corinth, in the name of Jesus.)

But then the discount crowd totally disses baptism at times, using the “..Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel..”; when Paul JUST got done admitting to baptizing several souls. Oh consistancy, though art a jewel.

Heb. 6:1-3 is written to those born again: “Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on to perfection: not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgement. And this we will do if God permit.”

(Notice the ‘doctine of baptisms’ is plural?)

1Peter is also written to born again souls. Look at 1:2, “Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto OBEDIENCE and SPRINKLING of the blood of Jesus Christ...”.

1Peter 3:20,21 is quite plain, if you are willing to allow it to harmonize with everything presented so far. 20 “...eight souls were saved by water.” 21 “The LIKE figure whereunto even BAPTISM doth also now save us (not the butting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God.) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.”

Water baptism is not a bath, but is done in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins. That is how it saves. That is how one has the answer of a good conscience toward God.

Being “buried with him” is where you get his blood on you, but his NAME must not be left out.

If there is no resurrection, then water baptism is a waste of time. “Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? Why are they then baptized for the dead?” 1Cor 15:29.

That’s Paul (the one who wasn’t suppose to baptize), saying that if Christ (and the asleep in Christ) rise not, then it is all vain. Of course, we know that is not the case, since Christ is risen, and the Spirit poured out.

Being born again requires obedience, which is NOT ‘our OWN works’. As Paul said to the saints in Rome:

“But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being THEN made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.” Rom. 6:17,18


209 posted on 01/18/2015 10:47:56 AM PST by Zuriel (Acts 2:38,39....Do you believe it?)
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To: Zuriel

Your verbosity does not change facts. It’s the shed blood of Jesus that wipes away our sins. Not some water bath.


210 posted on 01/18/2015 11:48:31 AM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: Zuriel
That was a very good post.

"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved. He that believeth not shall be condemned."

Jesus tells of two categories here: (1) those who believe and are baptized, and (2) those who don't believe. But some people claim to see a third: (3) those who believe but aren't baptized. Well, Jesus apparently didn't know about this third category.

Y'know, if the CEO of Lexus Corp. announced, "He that sends in an application and is baptized shall receive a new Lexus," there would be a mad rush to the water! People can understand there are two conditions to be met, not just one.
211 posted on 01/18/2015 12:42:37 PM PST by LearsFool ("Thou shouldst not have been old, till thou hadst been wise.")
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To: Zuriel; Resettozero; CynicalBear; Elsie
Since you made comments about the NIV translation I will use interlinear translation "On a side note, if any of you made a physical effort to go hear a preacher preach the Gospel, which caused you to make a committment to Christ; shame on you for making a physical effort in order to be saved /sarc." There you go again thinking that a man can cause you to commit to Jesus and/or save you. Only our Heavenly Father can cause us to commit to Christ. As far as the “physical effort in order to be saved” you act like that the drive saved you, but it didn’t. You are saved by committing with your HEART, not your body. You could have been saved in your very own house if you had chosen you didn’t need to make that drive. Your physical effort argument is thinking again of fleshly desires and not the Spirit. Romans 2:4 Or the riches of the kindness of him and the forbearance and the patience despise you not knowing that the kindness of God to repentance you leads Ephesians 1:18 Being enlightened the eyes of the heart of you in order to know you what is the hope of the calling of him what [are] the riches of the glory of the inheritance of him in the saints Romans 9:16 So then [it is] not of him willing nor of him running but on whom is showing mercy God John 5:24 Truly truly I say to you that the [one] the word of me hearing and believing the [one] having sent me has life eternal and into judgement not comes but has passed out of death into life Hebrews 10:12 this [One] moreover one for sins having offered sacrifice in perpetuity sat down at [the] right hand of God He sat down contrary to OT Priests because his work of Salvation was done, complete, or finished. John 19:30 When therefore took the sour wine Jesus he said it has been finished and having bowed the head he yielded up [his] spirit You fail to realize that Baptism to a first century Jew or Gentile didn't mean salvation. It has been perverted over the centuries to mean salvation, but that wasn't the original intention. "Several biblical regulations specify that full immersion in water is required to regain ritual purity after ritually impure incidents have occurred. A person was required to be ritually pure in order to enter the Temple. In addition, a convert to Judaism is required to immerse in a mikveh as part of the his/her conversion, and a woman is required to immerse in a mikveh after her menstrual period or childbirth before she and her husband can resume marital relations. In this context, "purity" and "impurity" are imperfect translations of the Hebrew "tahara" and "tumah", respectively, in that the negative connotation of the word impurity is not intended; rather being "impure" is indicative of being in a state in which certain things are prohibited (as relevant) until one has become "pure" again by immersion in a mikveh." It's the outward sign of conversion of the heart that can't be seen except by God Himself. Under the OT law man was dependent on a man the High Priest to take his sacrifice into the Holy of Holies, but under Jesus we worship by Spirit and not by man. If we have to be Baptized then we are right back to the OT of works by a Man and I just can't accept that. The Spirit of Jesus Christ is him being the Messiah and the Savior. I BELIEVE in the Blood and Body of Jesus Christ's sacrifice on the Cross and of that alone. Strong's Concordance pisteuó: to believe, entrust Original Word: πιστεύω Part of Speech: Verb Transliteration: pisteuó Phonetic Spelling: (pist-yoo'-o) Short Definition: I believe, have faith in Definition: I believe, have faith in, trust in; pass: I am entrusted
219 posted on 01/18/2015 10:14:01 PM PST by mrobisr
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