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To: ravenwolf
Well here's the thing.  You're admitting the words that make Matthew 18:15 about personal relationships are really there.  But if they still don't matter to you, what am I to do with that?  

As for us allegedly defending Paul at all costs, you've not responded to what I said earlier.  You do remember that Paul accounted himself the worst of sinners, don't you?  No one is arguing that Paul is sinless.  That's a straw-man and it burns real easy. Let's put all our chips on the right number: This is about your view of God.  If you don't think God can overcome the imperfections in His chosen messengers, then like Tozer once said, your god is too small.  My God has no more trouble speaking through Balaam's donkey than He does sending fire down from Heaven to incinerate a water-soaked altar for the prophet Elijah.

As for the correctness of Paul bringing charges against Peter without first having a private consultation, you forget these men are both apostles, uniquely empowered by Jesus Himself to set the foundations of the Christian era.  When Ananias and Sapphira lied to the Holy Spirit in public, did Peter consult with them privately to make sure he got his facts right?  Or did God work through Peter's immediate public rebuke of the two public liars to bring an immediate judgment of death?  That wouldn't play very well in the seeker sensitive environment we have today, would it.

And what sort of insight and power did God give to Paul concerning Elymas the sorcerer, without the benefit of private consultation?
Acts 13:8-11  But Elymas the sorcerer (for so is his name by interpretation) withstood them, seeking to turn away the deputy from the faith.  (9)  Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him,  (10)  And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?  (11)  And now, behold, the hand of the Lord is upon thee, and thou shalt be blind, not seeing the sun for a season. And immediately there fell on him a mist and a darkness; and he went about seeking some to lead him by the hand.
Or again Peter in this instance, declaring the innermost heart of a professing Christian in public after a public offense against the Gospel, without the benefit of an exploritory private conversation?
Acts 8:18-21  And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,  (19)  Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.  (20)  But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.  (21)  Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.
Yet what Paul did surely meets even your criteria of a multiplicity of witnesses.  Think about it.  How do you suppose Paul knew there was a problem?  There are only three choices.  Either God told him directly, or he had testimony from third parties, or he was an eyewitness to it himself.  The passage suggests he was reacting to bad behavior he was witnessing with his own eyes.  Do you know all the details of how that evidence was gathered?  Were you there? Do you know whether there were three or fifteen or forty witnesses?  You don't know.

The irony here is rich.  Your attack on Paul's character for supposedly acting on incomplete knowledge is based on your own incomplete knowledge of what happened in Antioch.  And your only witness against Paul is Paul himself, writing in defense of the purity of the Gospel.  Where's your second and third witness?  

For my part, I give credit to God, that He is well able to overcome all these petty limitations and accomplish His will.  My confidence in the word of God is a reflection, not of my opinion of Paul or Peter or any other writer of Scripture, but of my complete confidence in the power and good will of God to provide for us the words by which we are to live.

Peace,

SR

115 posted on 01/11/2015 1:49:37 PM PST by Springfield Reformer (Winston Churchill: No Peace Till Victory!)
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To: Springfield Reformer

Well here’s the thing. You’re admitting the words that make Matthew 18:15 about personal relationships are really there. But if they still don’t matter to you, what am I to do with that?


You are going all over the place again, Just two little scriptures is really all we have to deal with here.

2 Corinthian’s 13:1
Galatians 2:11

If you first want to tell me they do not mean what they say

Then I will tell you for the 20th time why I believe Matthew 18:15 is not confined to private matters.

All of this just because I commented that Christians should read the Gospels more, which is a strong indication that many Christians are offended if some one wants to put Jesus ahead of Paul.

I for one do put Jesus ahead of Paul or any one else.

That is why I insinuated that they were Paul worshippers.


116 posted on 01/11/2015 3:14:24 PM PST by ravenwolf (s letters scripture.)
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