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To: vladimir998; PGR88

Celibacy is the portal which homosexuals used to fill the ranks of an undermanned clergy. Face it. Normal heterosexual men with procreative and healthy sexual urges despite their mystical beliefs would be reluctant to enter a situation where those normal urges were not only proscribed but being in the very company of women would lead to suspicion. Homosexuals can purport to be celibate and privately do as they wish. Homosexuals will also continue to behave as homosexuals always have and despite the political incorrectness of the statement, have sex with and molest young boys. Once heard an elderly priest give a remarkable sermon. He said that about every five hundred years the Church goes through an existential crisis. The first was the sack of Rome in the 5th century when much of the clergy and Church documents were destroyed. the second was the East/West schism. The third was the Reformation. Now it is the crisis of vile homosexual priests defiling the sacred and molesting children. The Church weathered the first three and even prospered. It is by no means clear how this current crisis will be resolved.


17 posted on 01/06/2015 2:08:36 PM PST by allendale
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To: allendale

I entirely agree that the Catholic Church should quit ordaining the sexually dysfunctional. As you note, celibacy is far more than mere abstainence, and anyone who is sexually dysfunction could find the rigors of celibacy can help to metasticize their dysfunction. Let alone the obvious issue that you don’t want scandalous, sinful priests.

But you treat celibacy as some sort of pathology in a manner wholly contradictory to Christian sexuality. Christian single people have to be abstinent, also. Christian soldiers must part from their spouses for long periods of times. And illness and injury preclude sex for many married couples. The Catholic view of sex is that it is a gift which should be selflessly given when it builds a family (yes, through sharing intimate pleasure as well as conceiving children), not a need which creates an entitlement. Everyone loves citing Paul when he says that bishops should be married only once; they forget that he also counseled that it is best to forego sexual relationships altogether:

Therefore, I say to the unmarried, it is good for them to abide as I do [chastely]. But IF THEY CANNOT CONTAIN THEMSELVES, let them marry, for it is better that they should marry than burn [in Hell]. — 1 Corinthians 7:8-9

Does Paul intend that only those that cannot control their sexual desires should become bishops? Of course not! When he told Timothy to select from among those married once to become bishops, he was giving instructions to a community made entirely of converts to Christianity. In both the pagan and Jewish cultures, people would be disturbed that a community leader (i.e., a highly eligible bachelor) would remain a bachelor.


19 posted on 01/06/2015 2:53:16 PM PST by dangus
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To: allendale

“Celibacy is the portal which homosexuals used to fill the ranks of an undermanned clergy.”

So why are there so many child molesters among MARRIED Episcopal clergy? http://reformation.com/CSA/episcopalianabuse.html

“The first was the sack of Rome in the 5th century when much of the clergy and Church documents were destroyed.”

Didn’t happen. Yes, there was the sack of the Visigoths in 410. No, they did not kill much of the clergy nor were any notable number of documents replaced that were not in other places. There was no “existential crisis”. What you’re “elderly priest” did was extrapolate - incorrectly - from two works: Augustin’s City of God and Boethius’ Consolation of Philosophy.

“the second was the East/West schism.”

Again, there was no “existential crisis” there either. The Church was the Church.

“The third was the Reformation.”

Again, no “existential crisis” there either. Trent was about recognizing what was known not an “existential crisis”.

“Now it is the crisis of vile homosexual priests defiling the sacred and molesting children.”

Again, this too is not even remotely an “existential crisis”. The problem is sinful men, not the Church.

“The Church weathered the first three and even prospered. It is by no means clear how this current crisis will be resolved.”

The Church will weather this “crisis” and even prosper. The Church always does.


22 posted on 01/06/2015 3:35:07 PM PST by vladimir998
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To: allendale; vladimir998; PGR88
Normal heterosexual men with procreative and healthy sexual urges despite their mystical beliefs would be reluctant to enter a situation where those normal urges were not only proscribed but being in the very company of women would lead to suspicion.

Have you been reading a bit too much of this?

I also do not know of anyone condemning a priest for having been in the company of a woman and I am uncertain why one would (unless the priest and woman are kissing). I know a married priest in the Anglican Ordinariate (part of the RCC) who said that few to no priests in it want a married priesthood as it places too much strain on family life. He commented there are a few advantages, but for the most part it is a hard life.

It is by no means clear how this current crisis will be resolved.

By the Grace of Christ of course.

He said that about every five hundred years the Church goes through an existential crisis. The first was the sack of Rome in the 5th century when much of the clergy and Church documents were destroyed. the second was the East/West schism. The third was the Reformation. Now it is the crisis of vile homosexual priests defiling the sacred and molesting children.

The crisis of the present century is atheism/indifferentism. We have always had sinners in the Church, and we always will.
58 posted on 01/06/2015 7:37:32 PM PST by ronnietherocket3 (Mary is understood by the heart, not study of scripture.)
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To: allendale

Gay priests don’t see gay sex as violating celibacy because they aren’t with women.


66 posted on 01/07/2015 6:23:56 AM PST by AppyPappy (If you are not part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
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