The precise teaching of the translation of the church is never found in passages dealing with the return of Christ to establish His kingdom on earth. It has been shown that the arguments for posttribulationism depend upon identification of the church with tribulation saints—which they assume but never are able to demonstrate. Frequently their whole argument is based on confusing the great tribulation still future with the common trials of the saints throughout the age.
If you would like to be added to this ping list please mail me.
How do I say this?
Well,, the first part is easy... THANKS for posting these essays!
Now then,
could you possibly find some good Abridged (shorter!!!!!!) version of these essays?
It is just that there may not be enough time before the Second Coming to finish reading these most-extensive (long) essays.
THANK YOU!
I am trying my best to read them, though.
THey are quite good, IMHO.
THANKS for posting them!
Bkmk
That statement is absurdly uninformed. I will give you 3:
1. Matt 24:29 “Immediately after the distress of those days “ ‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’ 30“Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.d 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
While you explain away plain scripture that this does not refer to the Church but rather the Jews because of the use of the word "elect", I suggest you do a word study of "elect" every time it appears in the NT. Not once does the word refer to the Jewish people!
2. 1 Cor 15:51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
For insight into what happens at the Seventh (last) of the trumpets, see Rev 11:15-19.
3. 1 Thess 2:1 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. 3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.
Every time the Bible gives any hint of timing regarding the rapture, it always is at the end of the tribulation! One must twist, turn and jump to explain away the plain meaning of these verses, based on the un-Biblical preconceived belief in the pre-trib rapture.
The reverse is true! It is MUCH safer and Biblically accurate to assert that
There is not a single Scripture in either the Old or New Testament which relates the translation of the church to a PRE-tribulational coming of Christ.
To wit, since I gave 3 references above that, read simply, must be interpreted as being post-tribulational, give only 1 that plainly teaches the pre-tribulational rapture. Just 1!
If posttribulationists had one positive Scripture on the time of the translation, it would save them much complicated argument.
John 6
39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
I started out pre-trib in 1981. After studying it a few years. I became a mid tribber. I used to argue it a lot but I decided to stop being so devisive about it.
Do the saints in heaven have their new resurrected bodies yet? No! Why not? The new resurrected bodies are for earth not heaven. Pre-trib’ers would have us believe the saints are given new resurrected bodies and then taken back to heaven for 7 years.
They get new resurrected bodies when they return with Jesus, and then those who belong to Christ who are still alive on earth also get new resurrected bodies. Why? These new resurrected bodies are for earth, new Jerusalem, the millennium rule of Jesus. The saints in heaven and on earth do not get new resurrected bodies and then are whisked away into heaven for 7 years.
Pre-tribulation teaching is nonsense, it has no scriptural foundation, none!
Jesus will return only once after the 7 year tribulation that the church on earth will be here for. When Jesus returns the saints who come with him get new resurrected bodies and then the saints on earth get new resurrected bodies as scripture tells us. This happens as Jesus descends to earth and catches the church up to him. Satan and the demons are bound for a 1000 years as Jesus resigns in the new Jerusalem which is heaven joined to earth at the location of earthy Jerusalem.
Matt 24 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
bttt thanks
May I suggest at the bottom of each part that you put links to all your previous threads or in a post? Thanks.