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To: CynicalBear

and the reply from catholics is.....crickets.


3,628 posted on 12/29/2014 10:32:17 AM PST by ealgeone
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To: ealgeone; CynicalBear

Well, since you asked...

“Fly, oh Adam, oh Eve, and ye their children, who have offended God ; fly and take refuge in the bosom of this good mother. Do you not know that she is the only city of refuge, and the only hope of sinners ? St. Augustine”

This (and other quotes like it) is written in the same sense as Col 1:24.

Does anyone seriously suggest St Paul believes something was “lacking” in the suffering sacrifice of Christ? Of course not.

So what’s the meaning here? St Paul is saying that what is “lacking” is nothing on Christ’s part but everyone’s part who does not cooperate with the grace of God, by participating in the same suffering by uniting ones suffering to that of Christ’s on the Cross.

So we see here a deeper meaning than the “plain” reading of the Scripture. Similarly with the Marian quotes as above. Does anyone really believe the Catholic Church is so brazen in her “worship” of Mary, that the words as written are meant to be taken literally and devoid of all context?

I submit only those with an agenda or axe to grind would jump to that conclusion.

Quotes as above (from St Augustine no less, the alleged Saint of Proto-Protestantism...but I digress) are meant to be understood in the greater context of the Catholic understanding of salvation to whit: synergism as opposed to monergism. That is, that each person, by his cooperation with God, participates in his own salvation.

With this understanding the quotes as above become more clear: they aren’t saying Mary brings about salvation by her own power or that she is some kind of goddess equal to God. They are saying that by her unique role in salvation history, and her Fiat, she did indeed bring salvation to the world through her Son Jesus Christ. Put another way, without her Fiat, the plan of salvation as God intended (the Incarnation of His Son) never would have taken place. So we do indeed owe much to Mary, and thus in this sense it can be said what is said in the quote above (as others).

It’s Mary’s “yes” that is thanked and honored in quotes as above. Such quotes do not equate her with God in any way, just like Col 1:24 doesn’t actually say there was anything “lacking” in Christ’s suffering.

It takes a mind unfettered by agendas and presuppositions to see this point.

I’m going to bet though both of you will have something to say to “prove” what I’m saying “wrong”. So go ahead. Get that precious last word in; it’ll be to your detriment though if you don’t even take a few minutes to objectively consider what I’ve said.

Not that that’s ever stopped a critic of Catholicism around here.


3,633 posted on 12/29/2014 11:02:10 AM PST by FourtySeven (47)
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To: ealgeone
and the reply from catholics is.....crickets.

It was already replied to. See my reply to cynical. The matter has been settled anyone that says otherwise is a narrow minded bigot.

3,662 posted on 12/29/2014 1:19:47 PM PST by verga
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