Replies

I generally agree with your post. The purpose of St. Paul thickening the paint in Romans 3 is indeed to remind us that sin is sin, — at least if committed with full knowledge and willfully.

But the fact remains that “all have sinned” is in the context of “venom on the lips” and “feet quick to shed blood”, so unless you are prepared to advance the idea that Mary hastily murdered someone, you need to take the entire passage as a poetic exaggeration, including the “all” in it.

I generally agree with your post. The purpose of St. Paul thickening the paint in Romans 3 is indeed to remind us that sin is sin, — at least if committed with full knowledge and willfully.

But the fact remains that “all have sinned” is in the context of “venom on the lips” and “feet quick to shed blood”, so unless you are prepared to advance the idea that Mary hastily murdered someone, you need to take the entire passage as a poetic exaggeration, including the “all” in it.

You continue to ignore 1 John 1:8-10.

Remember, keep everything in context in the Bible. Read the rest of Romans and you will see Paul advance the idea of all have sinned....including Mary.

I still find it interesting that in all of the NT, neither Paul, Peter, James, Jude, Luke, Matthew, Mark, John, or any of the other writers in the OT ever, ever included or alluded to, an exception regarding Mary.

This false teaching regarding Mary's "sinlessness" flies against all that Luke wrote about.

Why do catholics persist, when their own apologists admit, that there is no Biblical support for the immaculate concenption, in adhering to this false teaching?

I have asked you several times why, yet you will not or cannot answer. Amazing.

But the fact remains that “all have sinned” is in the context of “venom on the lips” and “feet quick to shed blood”, so unless you are prepared to advance the idea that Mary hastily murdered someone, you need to take the entire passage as a poetic exaggeration, including the “all” in it.

Tell me, have YOU murdered anyone? Yet, wouldn't you admit that you HAVE sinned? The FACT is that we ALL have sinned and FALL SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD. That is the message of Romans 3. It isn't saying we are only sinners if we've killed someone. It is God telling us we can NEVER be as perfect and sinless as He is. That can only come from Christ's imputed righteousness given to us by the grace of God through faith. Mary admitted she needed a Savior, so should we.

But the fact remains that “all have sinned” is in the context of “venom on the lips” and “feet quick to shed blood”, so unless you are prepared to advance the idea that Mary hastily murdered someone, you need to take the entire passage as a poetic exaggeration, including the “all” in it.

I appreciate your response. As you might expect, I cannot agree with your assessment. Jesus equated spiritual acts of sin with physical acts. His teaching allows us to say that one merely needs to lust in order to be guilty of adultery. Likewise with murder. Under the rule presented in the Sermon on the Mount, that our "feet are quick to shed blood" is a spiritual fact, not in the least an exaggeration, even if we never actually take anyone out. I know that's a hard sentence, and it seems like it can't be so of the kind and good people we know. But God does not let us do all that is in our hearts. This is mercy on His part. But what evil lives within us is still there, even if it does not come fully to the surface.

This is the gravity of our sin with which Paul is wrestling in Romans 3. He's not issuing fuzzy-edged generalizations. He's making sure we understand that every man woman and child that came forth from Adam is under the curse of sin. It is a dark and all inclusive shroud, and we are all trapped within it if we are human. The only exception, by way of incarnation of God Himself, is Jesus.

I wish it were an exaggeration. You have no idea how much I wish that. But it's true in the harshest, most absolute way it can be. The only light at the end of that awful tunnel is Jesus. No one else. Were it not for His appearing, we would all be lost, every last one of us. Due cause to celebrate His coming to us, is it not?

Peace,

SR