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To: Elsie

-— and WHERE is it recorded as such? -—

Where is Sola Scriptura recorded?

And no, passages that include the word “Scripture” don’t constitute proof of Luther’s doctrine of the Bible ALONE as the SOLE or ULTIMATE rule of faith.

Another thing you should keep in mind when quoting Scripture to prove Sola Scriptura is that any reference to Scripture recorded in the Bible is NOT referring to the Bible as we know it, since the last book of the Bible wasn’t written until the year 100 A.D., and the entire Bible wasn’t canonized until around the year 400 A.D.

It’s simply IMPOSSIBLE for a passage in the Bible to be referring to the entire Bible.

As for Sacred Tradition, Paul tells his disciples to hold to the traditions passed down by word or letter.

And according to Jesus, the ultimate teaching authority is the church.

“If he won’t listen to the church, treat him as a pagan or tax collector.” —Jesus


2,936 posted on 12/23/2014 3:23:06 AM PST by St_Thomas_Aquinas ( Isaiah 22:22, Matthew 16:19, Revelation 3:7)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas
Where is Sola Scriptura recorded?

Don't you just HATE when someone will NOT answer the question posed and tries to get you to answer HIS instead?

2,963 posted on 12/23/2014 4:33:10 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas
“If he won’t listen to the church, treat him as a pagan or tax collector.” —Jesus

Still gonna keep pushing this mantra; aren't you!


STA apparently CHOOSES to give a false imprssion every time he writes:
 
"If he will not listen to the church, treat him as a pagan or tax collector." --Jesus
 
 

Matthew 18:15-17 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA) 

15 But if thy brother shall offend against thee, go, and rebuke him between thee and him alone. If he shall hear thee, thou shalt gain thy brother.

16 And if he will not hear thee, take with thee one or two more: that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may stand.

17 And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican.

2,964 posted on 12/23/2014 4:34:55 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas
“If he won’t listen to the church, treat him as a pagan or tax collector.” —Jesus

Haven't you taken that a bit out of context?? One of the favorite tricks of the Enemy! A little selective quoting on your part.

Matthew 18:15-18

If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16“But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED. 17“If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. 18“Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.

2,967 posted on 12/23/2014 5:45:19 AM PST by ealgeone
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas; Elsie; Resettozero; boatbums; WVKayaker; ealgeone; redleghunter; annalex
>>Luther’s doctrine<<

Luther's doctrine?? I think more like Irenaeus (130 - 202).

"We have learned from none others the plan of our salvation, than from those through whom the gospel has come down to us, which they did at one time proclaim in public, and, at a later period, by the will of God, handed down to us in the Scriptures, to be the ground and pillar of our faith." [Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson, editors, Ante-Nicene Fathers (Peabody: Hendriksen, 1995) Vol. 1, Irenaeus, “Against Heresies” 3.1.1, p. 414.]

Or maybe the doctrine of Cyril.

"This seal have thou ever on thy mind; which now by way of summary has been touched on in its heads, and if the Lord grant, shall hereafter be set forth according to our power, with Scripture proofs. For concerning the divine and sacred Mysteries of the Faith, we ought not to deliver even the most casual remark without the Holy Scriptures: nor be drawn aside by mere probabilities and the artifices of argument. Do not then believe me because I tell thee these things, unless thou receive from the Holy Scriptures the proof of what is set forth: for this salvation, which is of our faith, is not by ingenious reasonings, but by proof from the Holy Scriptures." [A Library of the Fathers of the Holy Catholic Church (Oxford: Parker, 1845), "The Catechetical Lectures of S. Cyril" Lecture 4.17.]

Or maybe it was Gregory of Nyssa (335 – 395)

"The generality of men still fluctuate in their opinions about this, which are as erroneous as they are numerous. As for ourselves, if the Gentile philosophy, which deals methodically with all these points, were really adequate for a demonstration, it would certainly be superfluous to add a discussion on the soul to those speculations. But while the latter proceeded, on the subject of the soul, as far in the direction of supposed consequences as the thinker pleased, we are not entitled to such license, I mean that of affirming what we please; we make the Holy Scriptures the rule and the measure of every tenet; we necessarily fix our eyes upon that, and approve that alone which may be made to harmonize with the intention of those writings." [Philip Schaff and Henry Wace, editors, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers (Peabody: Hendriksen, 1995) Second Series: Volume V, Gregory of Nyssa: Dogmatic Treatises, "On the Soul and the Resurrection", p. 439.]

Wait, maybe it was John Chrysostom (349 – 407)

Regarding the things I say, I should supply even the proofs, so I will not seem to rely on my own opinions, but rather, prove them with Scripture, so that the matter will remain certain and steadfast. [John Chrysostom, Homily 8 On Repentance and the Church, p. 118, vol. 96 TFOTC.]

Or maybe you should credit Basil (330 - 379)

What is the mark of a faithful soul? To be in these dispositions of full acceptance on the authority of the words of Scripture, not venturing to reject anything nor making additions. For, if ‘all that is not of faith is sin’ as the Apostle says, and ‘faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God,’ everything outside Holy Scripture, not being of faith, is sin. [Basil, The Morals, p. 204, vol 9 TFOTC]

The hearers taught in the Scriptures ought to test what is said by teachers and accept that which agrees with the Scriptures but reject that which is foreign. [Basil, Moralia, 72:1.]

Maybe Augustine (354 - 430)

If anyone preaches either concerning Christ or concerning His church or concerning any other matter which pertains to our faith and life; I will not say, if we, but what Paul adds, if an angel from heaven should preach to you anything besides what you have received in the Scriptures of the Law and of the Gospels, let him be anathema. [Augustine, Contra litteras Petiliani, Bk 3, ch. 6.]

Neither dare one agree with catholic bishops if by chance they err in anything, but the result that their opinion is against the canonical Scriptures of God. [Augustine, De Unitate Ecclesiae, 10.]

For among the things that are plainly laid down in Scripture are to be found all matters that concern faith and the manner of life. [Augustine, On Christian Doctrine, II, 9.]

And don't forget Hippolytus (170–235)

There is, brethren, one God, the knowledge of whom we gain from the Holy Scriptures, and from no other source… so all of us who wish to practice piety will be unable to learn its practice from any other quarter than the oracles of God. Whatever things, then, the Holy Scriptures declare, at these let us look; and whatever things they teach, these let us learn. [Hippolytus, Against the Heresy of One Noetus, 9.]

I think if you are going to give credit you should give credit where credit is do wouldn't you agree? I think when Catholics want to denigrate those who first promoted Sola Scriptura they should denigrate those who first started the idea don't you think?

2,968 posted on 12/23/2014 6:01:26 AM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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