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To: Mrs. Don-o
>>Not following what you're saying here. CB. The Catholic Church does not destroy "what"?<<

Does not destroy the temples, vestments, practices and other rituals and beliefs of pagans. As an example we could look at the Pantheon. It was a temple to all the gods of the pagans. Instead of destroying it as God commanded it was used as a Temple by Catholics. Another would be the vestments worn by priests. The pointed mitre worn by priests is the same as worn by priests to the pagan fish god Dagon. The Catholic Church, by it's own admission incorporated much of paganism under the guise of "baptising them". That was strictly forbidden by God.

1,749 posted on 12/14/2014 9:26:18 AM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: CynicalBear
Ah. You are thinking Catholic practice with indigenous culture is all syncretism. But this is not so. There is a distinction (an important one, and also often a contentious one) to be made between syncretism and legitimate cultural accommodation.

Questions:

Do you think Sunday is in some distinct way the Lord's day for Christians, replacing the Seventh Day (Saturday)?

Do you think it's OK to translate the NT into other languages, other than the original Greek?

Do you think it's OK for the Bible to be formatted into chapters and verses?

Do you think it's OK to be married in a church? Do you think it's OK for the bride and groom to exchange rings?

1,761 posted on 12/14/2014 10:00:31 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o (The eye can't say to the hand, I don't need you. - The head can't say to the feet, I don't need you.)
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To: CynicalBear; Mrs. Don-o

“Does not destroy the temples, vestments, practices and other rituals and beliefs of pagans.”

Well, Sts. Boniface and Ansgar would disagree with you since they destroyed pagan shrines.

The Roman Emperors who became Christians confiscated pagan temples (all were public property anyway), threw out the pagan priests and priestesses, defaced pagan idols, etc.

St. Augustine exhorted Christians in Carthage to smash all the symbols of paganism they could find. MacMullen talks about this in his book, Christianizing The Roman Empire A.D.100-400 (Yale University Press, 1984).

Libanius, who most definitely was NOT a Christian described what happened in good detail from his point of view. He said Christian monks

“hasten to attack the temples with sticks and stones and bars of iron, and in some cases, disdaining these, with hands and feet. Then utter desolation follows, with the stripping of roofs, demolition of walls, the tearing down of statues and the overthrow of altars, and the priests must either keep quiet or die. After demolishing one, they scurry to another, and to a third, and trophy is piled on trophy, in contravention of the law. Such outrages occur even in the cities, but they are most common in the countryside. Many are the foes who perpetrate the separate attacks, but after their counteless crimes this scattered rabble congregates and they are in disgrace unless they have committed the foulest outrage...Temples, Sire, are the soul of the countryside: they mark the beginning of its settlement, and have been passed down through many generations to the men of today. In them the farming communities rest their hopes for husbands, wives, children, for their oxen and the soil they sow and plant. An estate that has suffered so has lost the inspiration of the peasantry together with their hopes, for they believe that their labour will be in vain once they are robbed of the gods who direct their labours to their due end. And if the land no longer enjoys the same care, neither can the yield match what it was before, and, if this be the case, the peasant is the poorer, and the revenue jeopardized.” Pro Templis (Oration XXX.8-10)

Charlemagne destroyed Saxon pagan Temples. The same was done by Saxon Christians two centuries later to the Sorbs and other Slavs east of the Elbe. Who do you think destroyed the pagan shrines of the Baltic? Catholic Christians did.

When the idols of Godmundham were burned who did it? Coifi, a Catholic convert, and Northumbria was converted to Christianity.

“As an example we could look at the Pantheon. It was a temple to all the gods of the pagans. Instead of destroying it as God commanded it was used as a Temple by Catholics.”

Used. Not built. Have you ever been there? First, it was a government building and not owned by the Church and only came into the Church’s possession when the Roman government failed. Second, no one wanted to destroy one the great architectural wonders of the ancient world. If you have not seen it you have no idea what an amazing building it is. Third, it would have taken many years - and that’s not an exaggeration - to destroy the building. Why do it when all you had to do is remove the idols, cleanse the building and consecrate it to proper Christian use?

“Instead of destroying it as God commanded it was used as a Temple by Catholics.”

We’re talking about after Jesus came and long after the conquest of Canaan.

“Another would be the vestments worn by priests. The pointed mitre worn by priests is the same as worn by priests to the pagan fish god Dagon.”

Nope. The Dagon ones you’re referring to were actually made to look like fish. No Catholic bishop wears a mitre that looks like a fish and miters have changed a number of times. If Western Catholic bishops wore crowns like the Eastern bishops you would probably make up some complaint about them too.

“The Catholic Church, by it’s own admission incorporated much of paganism under the guise of “baptising them”.”

That’s completely false. The Catholci Church has NEVER, EVER said it incorporated paganism. Not even once. We do have practices which were once practiced only by pagans in the western world - typical weddings for instance - yet no paganism from them was incorporated at all.

“That was strictly forbidden by God.”

And that’s why we never did it. You just keep falsely accusing us of having done it. Just like I think it is obvious that at any given moment you might accuse the Catholic Church of destroyed native, indigenous cultures and then a minute later complain that the Catholic Church has no history of destroying pagan temples and idols (which were important to native, indigenous cultures). No matter what the issue is you’ll probably put yourself on both sides of it as long as you can keep attacking the Catholic Church.


1,777 posted on 12/14/2014 11:04:32 AM PST by vladimir998
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