Apologists Concerned About Rick Warren's Alignment With 'Holy Father'

Charisma News ^ | 12/3/14 | Mark Andrews

[marshmallow]

"Christian unity" is one of those terms that stir up a whole spectrum of—sometimes emotional—opinions.

On the one hand, we know that Jesus prayed to the Father concerning future believers "that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you" (John 17:21a, NIV).

On the other hand, charismatics know it is almost pointless to discuss the gifts of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 12, 14) with Baptists or most anyone else from a mainline denomination. And Protestants of just about any stripe get riled up when they hear Catholics talking about papal infallibility or their adoration of the Virgin Mary.

It's on this latter point that Rick Warren, senior pastor of Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, California, and successful author, has waded into a hornet's nest of controversy by telling a Catholic News Service interviewer that Protestants and Catholics "have far more in common than what divides us" and that Catholics do not "worship Mary like she's another god."

Regarding Warren's view that Catholics do not worship Mary, Matt Slick, writing on the website of the Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry, goes into great detail with material from Roman Catholic sources that say Mary is "the all holy one," is to be prayed to, worshipped, that she "brings us the gifts of eternal life" and she "made atonement for the sins of man."

If that's not putting her in the place of Christ as a god-like figure to be worshipped, then what is it?

"We believe in Trinity, the Bible, the resurrection, and that salvation is through Jesus Christ. These are the big issues," Warren says. "But the most important thing is if you love Jesus, we're on the same team."

To Warren's point about being on the same team, Slick.....

[Elsie]

Actually I said that I Accepted the translation from the vulgate...I didn't say that I translated it

Neither did I; but it seems a lot of your posts tend to infer that certain words come out of people's mouths.

[Elsie]

They will be judged, just as the protestant will be judged.

As will Mary.

I assume that her name WILL be found on the pages of the Book of Life.

I HAVE heard QUITE a lot about her.

Most all of it apocryphal though...

[Elsie]

....Joseph " adopted" Jesus....

Oh??

....didn't you read the Nativity story????

HMMMmmm...

Let's see what the Catholics have written...

 

 

 

Luke 2:1-21 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)

1 And it came to pass, that in those days there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that the whole world should be enrolled.

² This enrolling was first made by Cyrinus, the governor of Syria.

³ And all went to be enrolled, every one into his own city.

⁴ And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth into Judea, to the city of David, which is called Bethlehem: because he was of the house and family of David,

⁵ To be enrolled with Mary his espoused wife, who was with child.

⁶ And it came to pass, that when they were there, her days were accomplished, that she should be delivered.

⁷ And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him up in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.

⁸ And there were in the same country shepherds watching, and keeping the night watches over their flock.

⁹ And behold an angel of the Lord stood by them, and the brightness of God shone round about them; and they feared with a great fear.

¹⁰ And the angel said to them: Fear not; for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, that shall be to all the people:

¹¹ For, this day, is born to you a Saviour, who is Christ the Lord, in the city of David.

¹² And this shall be a sign unto you. You shall find the infant wrapped in swaddling clothes, and laid in a manger.

¹³ And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly army, praising God, and saying:

¹⁴ Glory to God in the highest; and on earth peace to men of good will.

¹⁵ And it came to pass, after the angels departed from them into heaven, the shepherds said one to another: Let us go over to Bethlehem, and let us see this word that is come to pass, which the Lord hath shewed to us.

¹⁶ And they came with haste; and they found Mary and Joseph, and the infant lying in the manger.

¹⁷ And seeing, they understood of the word that had been spoken to them concerning this child.

¹⁸ And all that heard, wondered; and at those things that were told them by the shepherds.

¹⁹ But Mary kept all these words, pondering them in her heart.

²⁰ And the shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God, for all the things they had heard and seen, as it was told unto them.

²¹ And after eight days were accomplished, that the child should be circumcised, his name was called JESUS, which was called by the angel, before he was conceived in the womb.

[Elsie]

Jesus took His mother to be with Him in Heaven, I didn't indicate that it was at the time of His death nor His ascension...

To be or not to be; that is the question.

Why did you feel it NECESSARY to modify what was originally written?

He took His mother with Him into Heaven.....

reading comprehension isn't one of your strong points is it???

---

Luke 23:43   Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)

 And Jesus said to him: Amen I say to thee, this day thou shalt be with me in paradise.

[Elsie]

It is not my church which has succumbed to the secular order of the day...

Just your POPE!

Why don't you accept everything the poor man is saying?

[Elsie]

>>probably at the moment of her death.<<

[Elsie]

you know...for a Book catholics claim to have written they sure do dis it when they can.

It's considered to be Lucy's football.

She can yank it away any time she pleases.

[Elsie]

Actually, as we all know The Holy Spirit inspired the early Catholic Church to write the scriptures and thus the Bible..

History (even the Catholic version of it) has shown that the various books of the NT were circulating thru the early churches BEFORE the 'catholic church' was even formed.

[Elsie]

How many times have we seen the appeal to *1.2 billion strong* by Catholics as if it were something significant?

Well; it is to Mary!!

If only ONE percent...

[Elsie]

...not everything they teach is in the Bible.

[Elsie]

Do as I SAY; not as ...

[Elsie]

I'd like to thank the United States Government for protecting me and my kind.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You see, 40 years ago, my odds of making it out of the egg, alive, were very poor; about 80% of us died. 

 (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=rachel-carson-silent-spring-1972-ddt-ban-birds-thrive)

 

 

But a lady discovered our plight and wrote a book that addressed our problem,

and, in 1972, a law was ammended protecting us even further. (http://www.fws.gov/midwest/eagle/protect/laws.html)

 

 

 

 

 

 

What I find strange is that the same government passed a law the very next year that allowed for killing

of unborn, and apparently unwanted, humans.  Little ones still nestled safely in their Mother's womb.

Around 25% of them are dying before birth - on average nearly 3,300 - every day of the year.

 

 

I hear that by now, somewhere around 55 MILLION of them have perished.

Wouldn't that kind of mess up the humans plans for growth, and welfare, and

retirement?

 

 

 

 

 

Strange birds; these Homo Sapiens.  Perhaps they'll come to their senses

before they are ALL dead!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'd like to thank the United States Government for protecting me and my kind.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You see, 40 years ago, my odds of making it out of the egg, alive, were very poor; about 80% of us died. 

 (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=rachel-carson-silent-spring-1972-ddt-ban-birds-thrive)

 

 

But a lady discovered our plight and wrote a book that addressed our problem,

and, in 1972, a law was ammended protecting us even further. (http://www.fws.gov/midwest/eagle/protect/laws.html)

 

 

 

 

 

 

What I find strange is that the same government passed a law the very next year that allowed for killing

of unborn, and apparently unwanted, humans.  Little ones still nestled safely in their Mother's womb.

Around 25% of them are dying before birth - on average nearly 3,300 - every day of the year.

 

 

I hear that by now, somewhere around 55 MILLION of them have perished.

Wouldn't that kind of mess up the humans plans for growth, and welfare, and

retirement?

 

 

 

 

 

Strange birds; these Homo Sapiens.  Perhaps they'll come to their senses

before they are ALL dead!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Elsie]

Throw out those rosary beads and graven images, too, then.

And upset the Vatican's dealings with Portugal??

[Elsie]

when you run out of semi-intelligent things to say you revert to nothing...as usual.

Yo momma's SO fat...

[Elsie]

now, that post 1350 is really funny..a bunch of people yell and scream and try to deny 2,000 years of truth and you say....well, we showed them!!!!!

now, that post #352 is really funny..a bunch of people yell and scream and try to deny that Catholic Leaders EVER had any difference of OPINION.

[Elsie]

post 1361....other than your misguided opinion, I see no error there...

To: vladimir998

terycarl is not opposed to the truth. You are.

Alas; you've outted me AGAIN!!!

To: ealgeone

Why do catholics persist with this false translation when it has been shown and explained this is not how the greek records it nor is it how it should be translated? I'm really curious.

shown and explained by who???those who wandered onto the scene 11,600 years after the event??

my Douay version states Luke 1:28 and the angel being come in said unto her: hail full of grace, the Lord is with thee,blessed art thou among women. Translated 1582. I have no idea of what the kjv says about anything and I'll take the translation from the Vulgate as pretty much the truth.

 

1,156 posted on ‎12‎/‎12‎/‎2014‎ ‎9‎:‎17‎:‎09‎ ‎PM by terycarl (common sense prevails over all)

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1,361 posted on ‎12‎/‎13‎/‎2014‎ ‎5‎:‎53‎:‎59‎ ‎PM by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

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O... K...

[Elsie]

...the blatant ignoring of the many examples...

Before there were MORMON crickets; there were CATHOLIC ones...

[Elsie]

The link is STILL on my webpage. I wish I had saved the others.

Me; too!

You really should have documented those 1,000's of paper cuts that wounded you so grievously!

[Elsie]

I have no particular interest in being polite to people who make false claims.

Mary is NOT in Heaven at this point.

[Elsie]