Posted on 12/10/2014 6:32:20 AM PST by marshmallow
"Christian unity" is one of those terms that stir up a whole spectrum of—sometimes emotional—opinions.
On the one hand, we know that Jesus prayed to the Father concerning future believers "that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you" (John 17:21a, NIV).
On the other hand, charismatics know it is almost pointless to discuss the gifts of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 12, 14) with Baptists or most anyone else from a mainline denomination. And Protestants of just about any stripe get riled up when they hear Catholics talking about papal infallibility or their adoration of the Virgin Mary.
It's on this latter point that Rick Warren, senior pastor of Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, California, and successful author, has waded into a hornet's nest of controversy by telling a Catholic News Service interviewer that Protestants and Catholics "have far more in common than what divides us" and that Catholics do not "worship Mary like she's another god."
Regarding Warren's view that Catholics do not worship Mary, Matt Slick, writing on the website of the Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry, goes into great detail with material from Roman Catholic sources that say Mary is "the all holy one," is to be prayed to, worshipped, that she "brings us the gifts of eternal life" and she "made atonement for the sins of man."
If that's not putting her in the place of Christ as a god-like figure to be worshipped, then what is it?
"We believe in Trinity, the Bible, the resurrection, and that salvation is through Jesus Christ. These are the big issues," Warren says. "But the most important thing is if you love Jesus, we're on the same team."
To Warren's point about being on the same team, Slick.....
(Excerpt) Read more at charismanews.com ...
What?
Christ’s Church has always treasured Biblical truth.
Blessed Mary, Ever Virgin.
We say that, too.
Now try this.........."Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee, blessed art thou among women...."
How's that?
So?
The QUESTION was...
How many Catholics here AGREE with the current pope?
You seem to have missed a great deal from Luke and especially from John. But someday, I think, it will really dawn on you. I didn’t get it right away; nobody gets it right away. So I’m praying for that “Aha” moment for you, when you read some of these precious words from Scripture and say, “Oh. OH!!!”
...."and blessed is the fruit of they womb, Jesus....."
Still with me?
And then some.
What a terrible curse!
Well, yes. We do.
No He didn't. He called her "favored with grace". Only Jesus and Stephen were referred to as "full of grace".
Asked in response to my statement about the errors of individualism and subjectivism.
And in post #138 I explain that "individualism and subjectivism" have nothing to do with agreeing with the current Pope.
Ergo, your question is moot.
I meant that they deny praying TO Mary and giving her qualities only God has.
"Ever Virgin" is a terrible curse?? I'm surprised. You surely didn't find that outburst in the Bible.
Scripture actually speaks in glowing terms of virginity.
Now concerning virgins, I have no commandment of the Lord; but I give counsel, as having obtained mercy of the Lord, to be faithful. I think therefore that this is good for the present necessity, that it is good for a man so to be. [27] Art thou bound to a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife. [28] But if thou take a wife, thou hast not sinned. And if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned: nevertheless, such shall have tribulation of the flesh. But I spare you. [29] This therefore I say, brethren; the time is short; it remaineth, that they also who have wives, be as if they had none; [30] And they that weep, as though they wept not; and they that rejoice, as if they rejoiced not; and they that buy, as though they possessed not
1 Corinthians: 7: 25-30.
And they sung as it were a new canticle, before the throne, and before the four living creatures, and the ancients; and no man could say the canticle, but those hundred forty-four thousand, who were purchased from the earth. [4] These are they who were not defiled with women: for they are virgins. These follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were purchased from among men, the first fruits to God and to the Lamb
Revelation 14: 3-4
Mary is the mother of Jesus the man, she is not the mother of Jesus who is God. When she was given the child Jesus within her womb by the Holy Spirit Jesus already existed. Stop being ridiculous.
They did not.
You are a very kind person, I can tell from your soft and almost endearing remarks. Please do not take my severe remarks as directed in any way toward you. It is this veneration of Mary, which I (and many others) find absent in the Scriptures but ubiquitous in the Catholic organization. It is both unwarranted and dangerous. You may view us as disrespectful (or worse, attackers), but at least several here are concerned for the safety of those who pay inordinate attention to a human.
That being said, the great majority of the information posited by Roman Catholics (not just here at FR) claims Mary is a "Co-Redemptrix", a Queen of Heaven, the Mother of God, a Woman who is sinless. This is all patently incorrect. Nowhere does she assist in salvation, but Roman Catholics claim she does. These claims provide a framework wherein one is encouraged to view some humans above others, an error Paul and David debunk as untrue. There is none who are good, no not one. There is none righteous. There is none who understand (their true plight and God's real holiness). There is none who seek God. All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. (Rom. 3)
If Mary was made righteous in the "womb" (a claim which is not mentioned in the Scriptures), then so was Jacob (Rom. 9). And, pre-dating Mary, he ought to earn a higher rank than her. But, Jesus put Mary in a very utilitarian perspective, noting that the crowd to which He spoke was more His mother than Mary, at that moment. Actually, according to Jesus, anyone who did His will was his mother (Matt. 12:46ff). How then does the Romanist organization claim that this woman demands extraordinary veneration ("hyperdulia") as "the most exalted of creatures"? Even under their own rules John the Baptist, Jeremiah, Isaiah, and Jacob deserve equal veneration. This is all nonsense. Isaiah was man of unclean lips living among a people of unclean lips (Is. 6). Sinless because he was a prophet selected before birth? What happened along the way?
And, further, when called on this error, Catholics sort of, "Aw shucks, we don't really mean that she is all that. She is just all that, but not really all that." It's like trying to nail jello to a tree. Is she venerated as a Co-Redemptrix, the Co-Savior of the world, or is she "just a woman"? Because, yes, all the glory must go, and only go, to Jesus Christ the Messiah from Israel, the Creator of Heaven and Earth, the Great I Am, Yahweh, El-Shaddai, the Blessed Hope of Israel. There is no other...no other...no other.
I think we do recognize the importance of Mary as the woman chosen by God to give birth to Jesus but she did not given birth to God. The real problem I think boils down to, is Mary without sin? If Mary is without sin she would be God. Mary was and is a human being created by God and had sin like all human beings, she needed the payment and forgiveness of sins just like any other person, which Jesus Christ who is God provided on the cross. Jesus had no sin, He is God, he is eternal and uncreated.
That’s right...
You don’t have to worry about anything God has promised to do.
Trust God to do what he has said he will and stop worrying about false doctrines. Your choice.
John 17:17 Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth.
And again, differences in administration of local assemblies to not by default demand differences in doctrinal position.
There's no where in Scripture where submission to one central authority is required for the local churches, the local body of believers.
Also, that line of thinking completely ignores the work of the Holy Spirit in bringing about unity amongst believers through their faith in Christ and being born again believers.
I don't agree with every single thing that the other non-Catholics on this forum believer, but since there's room for dispute among non-essential doctrines, it's not an issue. Romans 14 addresses that.
Not to mention that the differences in interpretation of the magisterium, the CCC, the pope's latest gaffes, whatever, put any interdenominational differences between Evangelical groups to shame.
I see plenty of that here to the point where FRoman Catholics, in their arrogance, take a PRIEST to task about things he says and never admit they're wrong or apologize.
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