Do you think it is wrong to expect that things presented as part of the Christian faith should have a basis in the rule of faith - sacred Scriptures? Nobody would assert - even you RCs - that EVERYTHING that has anything to do with how one leads their life as a follower of Christ has to be specifically spelled out in the Bible. But, for those things that are part of our faith, there are guidelines even when there isn't specificity. For example, there is no mention in the Bible about whether or not it is wrong for a woman to wear slacks. But, we are told men shouldn't wear women's clothing. Does that mean a woman shouldn't wear pants or a man can't wear a robe? No, just that it prohibits "cross-dressing" and pertains to homosexual activity. Does the Bible say we aren't supposed to go to movies? No, movies, of course, didn't exist back then but we are told that whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things (Phil. 4:8). That is our guideline. That plays out in every area of our lives and shows us that God is part of all things in our lives and we should strive to obey Him and honor Him.
>>I do not believe He meant for us to say the "Our Father" verbatim which would make it no different than rote and, possibly, vain<<
LOL. So when you ARE told how to pray, you don't obey, but when we do pray the way we like you are telling us to find a scripture quote where our prayer is in the scripture?
Why don't you reread what I said instead of putting down words I didn't say? When Jesus answered His disciples question about how to pray, he answered, "Pray in this manner..." or "This, then, is how you should pray..." (Matt. 6:9). I don't believe He meant for them to pray that exact prayer. If you do, then go ahead repeat as often as you deem necessary. The point was that we should avoid reciting rote "prayers" (called "vain repetitions" in Scripture) and whatever we pray, we do so TO God from our hearts. Just as there isn't a need for a "prayer" to be spelled out in Scripture in order for it to be "valid" - and NOBODY has ever said that - there IS a guideline about to WHOM we address our prayers. It was always prayer said TO God, and no one else. Y'all may rationalize your prayer to created beings as nothing more than "asking" them to pray with you, but presuming someone who has died has the power of God to hear prayers simultaneously from thousands of people IS attributing glory to them that ONLY God possesses.
>>Our prayers should be from our hearts directed TO God<<
Absolutely. Agree 100%.
Good, then why pray TO angels or "saints" or people who are not in this present life when God nowhere gives you permission to do so? What else did He mean when He commanded us to not contact the dead on behalf of the living? Almighty God through the prophet Isaiah warned:
When someone tells you to consult mediums and spiritists, who whisper and mutter, should not a people inquire of their God? Why consult the dead on behalf of the living? Consult God’s instruction and the testimony of warning. If anyone does not speak according to this word, they have no light of dawn. Distressed and hungry, they will roam through the land; when they are famished, they will become enraged and, looking upward, will curse their king and their God. Then they will look toward the earth and see only distress and darkness and fearful gloom, and they will be thrust into utter darkness. (Isa. 8:19-22)
I think that pretty much spells it out. We should pray TO God and not anyone else.
>>Prayer TO someone is a form of worship, I think<<
It is a form of worshiping God Who gave us the companionship of saints and angels and Whom alone we worship.
Not if we expect these created beings to possess attributes ONLY God has and imagine they will help us "get to" God instead of going to Him directly for all our needs. That IS a form of worshiping them though I don't expect you to see it that way. Involving others in praying with us for our needs and our ministries is God's way of getting us caring about each other and sharing in the blessings of serving Him. It makes us aware of the body of Christ - His bride - of which we are all part of through Christ. It's different from praying TO a passed-on believer asking their intercession FOR us. Most often, the glory and praise goes to THAT person rather than to God, who alone deserves the glory.
As is the usual FRoman Catholic method, you will have to defend whatever your leaders have devised and developed over the centuries. I don't expect my words or anyone else's to make you see differently. But, since this was an OPEN Religion Forum thread, I have as much right as you to say what I think on the topic. I back up what I believe with the sure word of God. What do you have?
The Church is the rule of faith, -- not the Holy Scripture. I repeat the question: Where does the Scripture proclaim itself the rule of faith?
"vain repetitions" in Scripture
That is common Protestant mistranslation of μη βαττολογησητε in Matthew 6:7. Also read Do Catholics Pray in Vain Repetitions?
Of course we repeat prayers. Christ did. Repeated prayers are in the scripture. The superstitious fear of repeated verbatim prayers in you is ironic because you just asked how prayer to Archangel Michael is biblical, but when something clearly is biblical -- you refuse to do it. So I laughed. I still do.
then why pray TO angels or "saints" or people who are not in this present life when God nowhere gives you permission to do so?
God gives us examples of conversation with saints and angels (and prayers to saints). For sure conversing with an angel is biblical (need examples?). So the idea that saints and angels are "not in this present life" or "mediums and spiritists" is atheist garbage and contrary to the Holy Scripture.
As is the entire Protestant project, by the way: a gradual descent to atheism.
That IS a form of worshiping
You know what is in my mind as I pray? You are what, medium and spiritist?