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For Advent: Two Canons: Scripture & Tradition
JimmyAkin.com ^ | 2014 | Jimmy Akin

Posted on 12/05/2014 7:18:21 PM PST by Salvation

Two Canons: Scripture & Tradition

by Jimmy Akin

Many Protestants would say, “Apostolic traditions would be binding on us if we could identify which traditions are apostolic and which are not. Obiously we want to obey and accept anything the apostles commanded and taught in the name of God.”

That is good. Protestants who say this recognize the authority of the apostles’ teaching; they simply need to see the mechanism by which we can recognize the apostles’ teachings.

1. THE CANON PRINCIPLE

How do we do that? The answer is that we recognize apostolic tradition the same way we recognized apostolic scripture. Today we are confronted with a variety of traditions, some apostolic and some merely human. In the same way the early Church was confronted with a body of scriptures, some apostolic and some merely human.

The early Church had to sort through these documents and figure out which were authentically apostolic writings — those by an apostle or an associate of an apostle — and which were merely human writings — those merely claiming to be by an apostle. The way they did this was by applying certain tests.

2. IS THE WORD OF GOD SELF-ATTESTING?

Some anti-Catholics, such as James White, are fond of claiming that the writer of Psalm 119 knew what God’s word was even though the Catholic Church wasn’t around to tell him what it was. But unless he was a prophet or had access to a prophet, the Psalmist did not have an infallibly known canon in his day. The canon was not yet finished, much less settled.

Anti-Catholics such as White claim that God’s word is self-authenticating, that it needs no witness. This claim is simply unbiblical. In scripture people regularly had to test revelation to see if it conveyed the word of God. This was not always obvious, even to the people to whom the revelation was given.

For example, in 1 Samuel 3, when God first spoke to Samuel, the boy prophet did not recognize the word of God. He thought it was the old priest Eli calling him, so he got up, went to where Eli was resting, and said, “Here I am, for you called me!” But Eli said, “I did not call; go and lie down again.” This happens three times: God calls Samuel and the young prophet, thinking it is Eli, hops up and rushes to see what he wants. Finally it dawns on the wicked old priest that God calling to the boy, so he tells him what to do the next time the voice addresses him. It turns out the young prophet was not able to recognize God’s voice, and the wicked priest Eli had to help him recognize the word of God. Obviously, God’s word was not self-attesting to Samuel!

Similarly, in 1 Kings 13 a man of God is sent from Judah to Bethel to prophecy. God tells him not to eat or drink until he gets back. But as he returns, an old prophet of God tells him the Lord has rescinded the command about eating and drinking. The man of God then goes home with the old prophet to have dinner. But while they are eating, a revelation comes that the order not to eat or drink is still in effect; the old prophet had been lying. This shows another instance where a prophet is not instantly able to discern between the voice of God and the voice of error. The man God sent to Bethel did not detect the fact that what the old prophet told him wasn’t God’s word. This purported revelation was not self-attesting as a fake word of God.

In Deuteronomy 13 and 18, God gives two tests to know whether a prophet is speaking the word of God. If the prophet makes a false prediction or says to worship other gods, he is not speaking for the Lord. The fact God gives these tests shows revelations must be tested because it is not always obvious what is and is not God’s word.

This is why Paul says in 1 Thessalonians 5:20-21, “Stop despising prophesyings! Test all things and hold fast to that which is good!” The Bible thus explicitly tells us that we must test what is the word of God and what is not, just as 1 John 4:1 says, “test the spirits to see whether they are from God.”

So the word of God is not self-authenticating in the way some Protestant apologists allege. God invites and commands us to test any revelation purported to come from him. This includes scripture. If someone offers a book that purports to be scripture, it has to be tested to see if it is apostolic writing or merely human writing.

3. THE KEY TO CANONICITY

How do we know which books belong in the Bible? The early Church’s answer was: Those books which are apostolic belong in the canon of scripture. If a book had been handed down by the apostles as scripture (like the books of the Old Testament) of if it was written by one of the apostles or their associates (like the books of the New Testament), it belonged in the Bible. Apostolicity was thus the test for canonicity.

Protestant early Church historian J. N. D. Kelly writes:

“Unless a book could be shown to come from the pen of an apostle, or at least to have the authority of an apostle behind it, it was peremptorily rejected, however edifying or popular with the faithful it might be” (Early Christian Doctrines, 60).

But how could one know which books were apostolic? Certainly not by a book’s claim to be apostolic, since there were many false gospels and epistles circulating under the names of apostles. Neither did the Holy Spirit promise a revelation to each individual Christian of what books belonged in the Bible.

But how was the test for apostolicity carried out in the early Church? Basically, there were two tests, both of them involving tradition.

First, those books were reckoned as apostolic which agreed with the teachings the apostles handed on to the Church. Gnostic scriptures and other writings which did not agree with the apostolic tradition were rejected out of hand. This is something Evangelical scholars admit.

Protestant scripture scholar F. F. Bruce writes that,

“[The early Fathers] had recourse to the criterion of orthodoxy…. This appeal to the testimony of the churches of apostolic foundation was developed especially by Irenaeus…. When previously unknown Gospels or Acts began to circulate… the most important question to ask about any one of them was: What does it teach about the person and work of Christ? Does it maintain the apostolic witness to him…?” (The Canon of Scripture, 260).

Second, those books were regarded as apostolic which were preached in the various churches as being from the pen of an apostle or the associate of an apostle — not just its doctrines, but the book itself. If a given work was not regarded as apostolic and was not preached as such in the churches, then it was rejected. This was also an appeal to tradition because it looked to the tradition of the churches as a guide for apostolicity. If the tradition of the Churches did not recognize a book as apostolic, it was not canonized.

The fact that this was also used by the early Church to establish apostolicity is also something admitted by Protestant scholars. F. F. Bruce writes:

“It is remarkable, when one comes to think of it, that the four canonical Gospsels are anonymous, whereas the ‘Gospels’ which proliferated in the late second century and afterwards claim to have been written by apostles and other eyewitnesses. Catholic churchmen found it necessary, therefore, to defend the apostolic authenticity of the Gospels…. The apostolic authorship of Matthew and John as well established in tradition. But what of Mark and Luke? Their authorship was also well established in tradition” (ibid., 257).

But of course not all of the Churches agreed. Some Protestant apologists are fond of pointing out that the Muratorian fragment, an early canon list dating from the A.D. 170s, includes most of the New Testament. But they fail to point out that the Muratorian fragment also omitted certain works from its canon. It did not include Hebrews, 1 and 2 Peter, and 3 John. Furthermore, it included works that the Protestant apologists would not regard as canonical: the Apocalypse of Peter and the Wisdom of Solomon. So there was obvious disagreement on the extent of the canon.

Eventually, the New Testament canon was settled at the Council of Rome in the year 382 under Pope Damasus I. Up to this point, its specific books were not firmly settled.

Now a Protestant apologist will either have to agree that the men at the Council of Rome included all of the right books and only the right books in the canon or he has to disagree. If he disagrees, then he is going to have to disagree with the New Testament canon in the very Bible he uses, because it was the Council of Rome that established that canon.

But if he agrees that the Council of Rome included all the right books and only the right books in the New Testament canon then he is going to have to say that the early Church made an infallible decision (infallible because they included all the right and only the right books, thus making an inerrant decision under God’s providential guidance — which is infallible guidance). They made this infallible decision three hundred years after the death of the last apostle. But if Church councils are capable of arriving at infallible decisions three hundred years after the death of the last apostle, the Protestant apologist has no reason to claim they are incapable of this later on in Church history.

4. THE CANON OF TRADITION

The fact that when the Church made its decision it did so hundreds of years after the death of the last apostle is significant, but no less significant is the fact that when it made the decision it did so on the basis of tradition.

As we noted, the Church was confronted by conflicting traditions concerning which books should be included in scripture. Some traditions, for example, said that the book of Hebrews belonged in the canon; others said it did not. One of these traditions (the one indicating inclusion in the canon) was apostolic, the other (the one indicating exclusion) was merely human. In order to decide whether the book of Hebrews belongs in scripture, the Church had to decide in favor of one tradition over the other. Thus in order to settle the apostolicity of a scripture, it had to settle the apostolicity of a tradition.

As a result, the Church can not only make rulings of what is apostolic and what is not hundred of years after the death of the last apostle, it can also rule on which traditions are apostolic and which are not — and do so centuries into the Church age.

Therefore, the Church can rule on the canon of tradition the same way it ruled on the canon of scripture. The Church is the living Bride of Christ, and she recognizes the voice of her husband. She is able to point at proposed scriptures and say, “That one is apostolic; that one is not.” And she is able to point at proposed traditions and say, “That one is apostolic; that one is not. In this one I recognize the voice of my husband; in that one I do not.”

The mechanism by which we establish the canon of tradition is thus the same as the way we established the canon of scripture. The same principle works in both contexts. The Church is the witnesses to both canons.

5. TESTS FOR THE CANON OF TRADITION

Of course the Church has tests she uses to figure out what traditions are apostolic, just as she had tests to establish what scriptures were apostolic.

One test is whether a given tradition contradicts what has previously been revealed. As anti-Catholics often point out, proposed traditions must be tested against scripture. If a proposed tradition contradicts something God has said in scripture (or something said in already known apostolic tradition) then that shows it is merely a tradition of men and may be disregarded. The Church is thus more than happy to test proposed traditions against scripture.

Of course the Church also applied the flip-side of this test: In the early centuries any proposed scripture that did not match up with apostolic tradition was rejected from the canon of scripture. Thus when, in the second and third centuries, the writings of the Gnostics taught that Jesus was not God or that the God of the Old Testament was not the God of Jesus Christ, these books were summarily rejected on the basis of not matching up to the apostolic tradition.

Naturally, once a scripture has been tested and found to be canonical it is no longer subject to testing. Once a scripture has been shown to belong to the canon of scripture, it is no longer up for debate. Similarly, once a tradition has been tested and found to be canonical it is no longer subject up for debate either. Once a tradition has been shown to belong to the canon of tradition, it is no longer up subject to testing.

A Protestant apologist would not question whether a given book of the New Testament belongs in the canon based on whether it makes a statement that is difficult to reconcile with something said in another book. Once it has been found to be canonical, we can have confidence that it is God’s infallible word and any apparent difficulties arising between it any what God has said elsewhere can be solved. In the same way, once a tradition has been tested and found canonical, we can have confidence that it is God’s inerrant word and that any apparent difficulty arising between it and anything God has said elsewhere has a solution. If we can have confidence at superficial disharmonies in the canon of scripture, we can with the canon of tradition as well.

We know that when God speaks in scripture there are apparent difficulties which arise. Liberals use these to attack the inerrancy of scripture, and so conservatives produce books showing why these supposed discrepancies are nothing of the kind. But if God speaks in scripture in such a way that apparent discrepancies arise then we should expect the same thing to happen when God speaks elsewhere as well. That gives us no cause for alarm.

6. THE CANON PROBLEM

But the Protestant apologist has an even more fundamental problem because in order to justify his principle of sola scriptura or the “Bible only theory,” he would have to claim that we know what books belong in the Bible without acknowledging the authoritative role of apostolic tradition and the Church in finding this out. If, as on the Protestant theory, we must prove everything from scripture alone then we must be able to show what belongs in the canon of scripture from scripture alone.

In fact, we cannot even begin to use sola scriptura before we have identified what the scriptures are. If one claims to know what the scriptures are then one is making a claim of propositional knowledge, and which could only be revealed by God since we are talking about a supernatural subject, meaning he is making a claim to propositional revelation. But if all propositional revelation must be found in the Bible, then the list of the canon must itself be contained in the scriptures. The Protestant apologist must therefore show, from scripture alone, what books belong in the Bible.

But this is something he cannot do. There is no canon list contained in scripture. Many books of the Bible (in fact, virtually all of the books of the New Testament) are not quoted by other books of the Bible, much less explicitly quoted “as scripture” (something on which Protestant apologists, as a matter of necessity, are very big). And the Bible gives us no set of tests by which we can infallibly prove which exact books belong in it. The fact is that there is no “inspired contents page” in the Bible to tell us what belongs within its covers.

The Protestant apologist is in a fix. In order to use sola scriptura he is going to have to identify what the scriptures are, and since he is unable to do this from scripture alone, he is going to have to appeal to things outside of scripture to make his case, meaning that in the very act of doing this he undermines this case. There is no way for him to escape the canon of tradition.

Apostolic Tradition was the key to the canon in two ways — by telling us what doctrines apostolic books must teach (or not teach) and by telling us which books themselves were written by the apostles and their associates.

Ironically Protestants, who normally scoff at tradition in favor of the Bible, themselves are using a Bible based on tradition. In fact, most honest Protestants would admit that they hold to the books they do because when they first became Christians someone handed them (“traditioned” or “handed on”) copies of the Bible that contained those books!



TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; History; Theology
KEYWORDS: canon; canonical; canons; catholic; scripture; tradition
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To: metmom
How can you say it was before, it was part of the Levitical covenant which included the eating of FAT.

Do you protestants eat fat or not?

Further it doesn't matter because like I said NEW COVENANT, NEW RULES!

Jesus said it, I believe it, you are the ones saying Jesus lied.

301 posted on 12/13/2014 4:20:20 PM PST by verga (You anger Catholics by telling them a lie, you anger protestants by telling them the truth.)
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To: metmom; Salvation
Still waiting...... Do you consume fat?

Lev_3:17 It shall be a perpetual statute throughout your generations in all your dwellings, that ye shall eat neither fat nor blood.

302 posted on 12/14/2014 5:01:13 AM PST by verga (You anger Catholics by telling them a lie, you anger protestants by telling them the truth.)
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To: verga; metmom

No, the prohibition against eating blood *did* indeed come before the Old Covenant. It is plainly there in the Scripture passage from Genesis that metmom provided you. In that passage, God forbid Noah and his descendents from eating blood. Shouldn’t you have addressed metmom’s point that the prohibition against eating blood is given in Genesis, before the Old Covenant, and is also given again by the Apostles in the book of Acts, if you’re going to discuss God’s Word as it is, and seek to tell people how to interpret it?

I also had to wonder if you did something likewise with my reply in Post 294. I discussed John 6 and the Last Supper, but you replied only to this,

” Then consider something else, as well. At the Last Supper, Jesus did not give His Apostles either of His blood or His flesh to drink or

to which you said:

“He did them His literal Body and Blood.
This was no parable, there was no crowd, just the disciples.”

Are you familiar with John 6, or if not did you read it when I mentioned it? The crowd is there in John 6, as I discussed, and I never claimed they were there at the Last Supper, so my first thought in reaction to that reply is that it makes no sense for you to dispute the crowd’s presence in any way. But then I thought of another possibility for how you meant that, but it is equally not relevant while also failing to address what happens in John 6.

So, the thought was this: what you meant is that Jesus said something similar in both John 6 and at the Last Supper, and since the crowd wasn’t at the Last Supper, but only the disciples, then it should be concluded that He meant for his words to be taken literally, across both situations mentioned, and all other possible situations. Is that your point, then?

If it is, then it doesn’t logically follow. You’re assuming first that because the crowd, including some disciples, turned away from Jesus at the literal meaning of the words, and then Jesus later used the same words, that, logically it follows that when Jesus used essentially the same words, that they were meant to be taken literally, as the crowd (including some disciples outside the 12) took them. But, if the crowd *misunderstood* the words, due to their hardened hearts of unbelief, and that caused them to turn away, that would not make the misunderstanding into a truth that the twelve disciples believed. And considering the Gospels *say* Jesus spoke to the crowds in parables because they were unbelieving, and something similar happened when the Pharisees took Jesus literally when He spoke of the temple being destroyed, and Jesus *did not* give the disciples His actual flesh and blood to consume, then the possibility that He did not, strictly speaking, mean what He said literally, has to be addressed and eliminated as a possibility, if what you say is to be considered true.

And let me further say, in the Last Supper itself, as I said, Jesus is present there in body, but He gave His disciples bread and wine which He said were His body and blood, not His own actual body and blood, although He could have pricked Himself and cut small portions from Himself if He’d chosen to. And if instead, His resurrected body was required, then He could have given to His disciples actual blood and meat from Himself afterward, since He appeared to them and told them to touch Him, meaning He was physically there.

Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 11, though,

” 3
23 For I received from the Lord what I also handed on to you, that the Lord Jesus, on the night he was handed over, took bread,

24 and, after he had given thanks, broke it and said, “This is my body that is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.”

25 In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.”

26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the death of the Lord until he comes.” (Catholic Bible)

To “proclaim the death of the Lord until He comes” (returns in glory). So what would be the reasons for believers to proclaim the death of the Lord? What is the meaning of His death?

And, the fact of the matter is also that, if you read through the Gospels, and the New Testament, and the entire Bible, what is the importance giving to believing on the Lord? Jesus constantly spoke on believing on Him, and unbelief, as did the Gospel writers, and the rest of the New Testament and Bible writers. And even where the Gospel is proclaimed, which is often, the Roman Catholic beliefs on Holy Communion aren’t a part of it.

I do believe, as I said, that evangelicals are wrong to say that Holy Communion is “just a symbol.” I understand where those who say that are coming from, but their own beliefs don’t fit that. 1 Corinthians 10 says of the Israelites,

I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that our ancestors were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea,

2 and all of them were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea.

3 All ate the same spiritual food,

4 and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they drank from a spiritual rock that followed them,* and the rock was the Christ.

1 Corinthians 10 also speaks of believers as being of one body, which is one bread, which while in the literal sense of this world isn’t true, spiritually in an eternal sense, it is. So I believe that it is spiritually true that Jesus is having us eat His body and drink His blood, and that He is a shepherd and we sheep, that He is also a door, and a temple as well, and that we, when we believe in Him as our Savior, are part of that temple.

And to go back to what Roman Catholics need to prove, then, it has to be proved that Jesus’ words were meant literally, and He was not using a figure of speech which would be taken as a spiritual truth by those who believed in Him and understood what He meant because they did. And Jesus’ words, in themselves, prove nothing. As language goes, they could be literal, but they could also be a figure a speech, because some figures involve saying that someone or some thing is someone or some thing else, which they clearly are not. So, to prove Jesus meant His words either way, that has to be done from looking at the rest of what we know about Him (which involves conclusively answering the types of questions mentioned here), and Roman Catholics would also say, because the Roman Catholic Church says it’s true. But if make that last claim without truly and independently proving that it’s shown in Scripture, then you are relying on Roman Catholic tradition, not Scripture.


303 posted on 12/14/2014 6:52:31 PM PST by Faith Presses On
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To: Faith Presses On

I pray that you come to the truth. Just so you know I am no longer reading these posts.


304 posted on 12/15/2014 3:14:54 AM PST by verga (You anger Catholics by telling them a lie, you anger protestants by telling them the truth.)
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To: Faith Presses On

Good job.

The white flag was raised when confronted with the truth you posted.


305 posted on 12/15/2014 8:31:27 PM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: verga

I pray myself that you would come to know the truth. You’ve said repeatedly in this thread and elsewhere that not answering says something, while you yourself have declined to try to answer here.


306 posted on 12/17/2014 11:25:26 PM PST by Faith Presses On
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To: metmom
What is your degree in?

Oh that is a white flag in YOUR hand.

307 posted on 12/18/2014 2:48:00 AM PST by verga
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To: Faith Presses On; metmom

I have answered you, and will continue to pray for you. Please let metmom know how you feel as well about questions left unanswered.


308 posted on 12/18/2014 2:50:00 AM PST by verga
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To: verga
Nope.

1 Corinthians 1:18-31 For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written,“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart.”

Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe. For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth. But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, so that no human being might boast in the presence of God. And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption, so that, as it is written, “Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.”

309 posted on 12/18/2014 5:40:44 AM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: metmom

What is your degree in? Do you go Doctors that never went to Medical school, A lawyer that never went to Law school. Has your plumber served an apprenticeship?


310 posted on 12/18/2014 6:02:03 AM PST by verga
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To: verga; metmom

I’ll continue to pray for you, but you didn’t answer post 303, which was on Scripture and Christian interpretation of it. It’s not a topic that could ever become irrelevant either, so getting to the truth about them matters.

I don’t think I’ve read every post you and metmom have written on what you’re mentioning to me, but from what I can see the whole matter is something minor and personal, and since it involves personal information metmom might not want to answer you on it for that reason. But it is not directly about what something in the Bible means, is it?


311 posted on 12/18/2014 7:03:37 PM PST by Faith Presses On
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To: Faith Presses On

See post 304, this is my last reply to you on this thread.


312 posted on 12/18/2014 7:11:21 PM PST by verga
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To: verga

I read it when you wrote it. You had previously replied on the Scriptures and doctrine that we were discussing, in reply to what I wrote, but on 303, you decided not to. And that’s the truth of it. God’s Word asks in Psalm 15, basically who will live with the Lord. And it provides answers, among them those who speak the truth in their hearts. The New Testament says we need to receive a love of the truth. That means to stop trying to decide for ourselves what’s true, but to ask the Lord to show it to us.


313 posted on 12/18/2014 7:40:18 PM PST by Faith Presses On
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